To think this is really cruel?

[RosieGuacamosie]

My friend got a lockdown puppy last summer and is now having to go back to work in the office and is planning to leave her dog in a crate whilst she’s at work. I offered her the details of my dog Walker but at £15/day apparently that’s too expensive. I understand £75 a week is a lot of money but surely that should have been thought of at the time she got the dog?

I think it’s bad enough leaving a dog in the kitchen for 8 hours on it’s own, but to leave it in a crate seems extra cruel.

Am I being precious and the dog will actually sleep most of the time which is what everyone else seems to be saying? Friend pointed out it’s no different to leaving the dog downstairs whilst she sleeps for 8 hours.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

*move not love

[Bluntness100]

@flashylamp

The RSPCA won't be interested in a dog with a indoor sleeping space and access to food and water.

'Cruelty' to animals is much more than leaving them in a crate for house at a time. While I don't agree this is acceptable, the RSPCA won't act here.

Ignore this op. Crating an animal alone all day is cruel. Call the rspca. Say it’s making a lot of noise (so she doesn’t know it’s you) and that she leaves her dog crated all day every day.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

@Crankley

A totally despicable thing to do. When did crates become a thing? Never heard of them being used until latter years.

I would report to the RSPCA. These people shouldn't be allowed to have animals.

I grew up in a 'doggy' house, we had loads of dogs over the years, my mum is like an expert trainer. I have often said she should charge for training services she's so good at it, we never had a dog poo or wee in the house past about day 3, never once jumped up at visitors, never ever went on the sofa or upstairs etc. Crates were something that were kept in the boot for car journeys. When did they become a thing that is kept in the house? Can't people just train their dogs properly not to jump up at and bother people if they're worried about others coming round?

[flashylamp]

@Bluntness100

I was talking from the RSPCA POV, not mine.

You may not agree but that will be their stance.

[LemonRoses]

A crate should be a safe and secure space where the dog is content. Not for up to sixteen hours usually though.

Nobody to report it to though. It’s not cruelty, as such.

Our dog was kennelled on straw for up to 22 hours when she wasn’t working, a bit bigger than a crate and with other dogs in adjacent kennels, but still confined most of the time. When she was trialling or working she was out running for six hours a day or travelling in a special air conditioned trailer in a box about two foot cubed for about ten hours.

She’s a beautiful thing. Definitely not I’ll treated, just what she was used to as a working beast.
I think she prefers indoor living though and I don’t think pets should be locked up and bored all day. It depends what happens the rest of the time, the size of crate, access to water and ability to deposit bodily waste somewhere.

[Soubriquet]

Yeah RSPCA will do fuck all

As far as they are concerned, the dog has access to water (im hoping) and shelter. Doesn’t matter if it’s left alone for 8+ hours

[Horehound]

She needs to install a dog flap and secure her garden. It needs to pee. What about access to water etc? She's fucking shit.
I'd not be her friend and I'd be telling her why

[Wolfiefan]

Friend is an idiot.
Overnight there are physical factors that mean the dog can go without going to the toilet.
That won’t be the case all day. The crate will be a literal shit show.
The dog won’t see the crate as a safe and happy place if it’s shut in all day and all night. It’ll be distressed. Possible begin barking or even injure itself trying to get out.
Hoping they see sense. Or rehome.

[Horehound]

Also what about a few days with sog walker at least. Cause at the moment it sounded like the options were all or nothing but 2 days out of five is better than nothing

[Bluntness100]

[quote flashylamp]@Bluntness100

I was talking from the RSPCA POV, not mine.

You may not agree but that will be their stance. [/quote]
Then let’s let her make the call shall we instead of putting her off doing anything!

[VeganCheeseandWine]

Crate training is OK for during meals, if there's work going on in the house etc but yeah that's seriously excessive for all day.

Can she not make one or the rooms eg kitchen suitable for the pup?

[Arbadacarba]

YANBU. Would your friend fancy being locked in a crate all day with nothing to do and no company?

[BettyUnderswoob]

When did crates become a thing? Never heard of them being used until latter years.

So much this ^

I got my first dog 7 years ago. I felt like the weirdo when I realised I was the only person I knew (or read about on MN!) that didn’t have a crate for him. It was, it seemed, absolutely de rigeuer and essential.
I still don’t get it! My dog is large and wanders freely around the house and garden. Cant imagine locking him up.

[Starkcurtain]

Put it this way... I have two rabbits and would not cage them up for 16 hours a day - god forbid a dog. That’s exceptionally unfair on the poor thing. Cannot understand why people buy pets to give them a miserable life.

The RSPCA will likely do nothing though as it’s basic needs are being met

[DenisetheMenace]

Contact the breeder then. I wouldn’t want a dog I had bred to be kept like this and would offer to buy it back if that’s what it took.

[DrSbaitso]

That is absolutely not ok.

[AvantGardening]

I used to work with service dogs. We crate trained for various reasons. Our rule of thumb was crates used overnight to sleep in plus up to four hours at a time, no more than six hours total in a day. And those dogs had work time and play time when not in the crate. An entirely different lifestyle to most pets.

[Wolfiefan]

@DenisetheMenace decent breeders wouldn’t want this. It’s very likely the dog didn’t come from one though.

[FrangipaniDeLaSqueegeeMop]

@Bluntness100 she could try but aside from the fact that it will highly likely be a wasted phone call, they will hound her for donations for now til the end of time

[flashylamp]

Then let’s let her make the call shall we instead of putting her off doing anything!

It's not up to me or you to 'let' OP do anything. I posted my opinion, based on experience, of how the RSPCA will view this situation. I didn't say don't call them. It's not untrue that they won't be interested though, and I am perfectly entitled to say so.

[21Flora]

Crates aren’t supposed to be locked in crate training, they are meant to be covered and open so dogs can go and have some peace if they want it in a quiet, safe space. Not to lock a dog in for hours on end.

[newnortherner111]

I would still contact the RSPCA. I also wonder if dog walking could be two or three days per week if not five, and given the current government guidance is still to work from home if you can, whether the OPs friend should be challenging her employer about five days per week in the office. The OPs friend could use the concern about the Indian variant as a reason to raise the matter, as 'I have got a dog and cannot afford a dog walker five days a week' would be met with a blunt response I expect.

[JackANackAnoreeee]

Friend pointed out it’s no different to leaving the dog downstairs whilst she sleeps for 8 hours.

What an idiot. Leaving a baby in a crib for 10 hours overnight isn't cruel because they're sleeping but it bloody would be to also leave them for 10 hours during the day.

[ArabellaScott]

I don't use a crate myself, but crate training can apparently be helpful for nervous dogs, etc. If it is used properly so that the dog is happy and relaxed when in the crate. So it can help to settle dogs at night, to provide a safe place for them. etc.

8 hours is absolutely far, far too long to be shut in a crate.

4 hours is absolute max to leave a dog without checking for distress, toileting etc.

I agree that it's cruel and pointless to do this to a dog. She'd be better rehoming if she can't look after it properly.

[MarshaBradyo]

No she can’t do this

It’s cruel