To think this is really cruel?

[RosieGuacamosie]

My friend got a lockdown puppy last summer and is now having to go back to work in the office and is planning to leave her dog in a crate whilst she’s at work. I offered her the details of my dog Walker but at £15/day apparently that’s too expensive. I understand £75 a week is a lot of money but surely that should have been thought of at the time she got the dog?

I think it’s bad enough leaving a dog in the kitchen for 8 hours on it’s own, but to leave it in a crate seems extra cruel.

Am I being precious and the dog will actually sleep most of the time which is what everyone else seems to be saying? Friend pointed out it’s no different to leaving the dog downstairs whilst she sleeps for 8 hours.

Some dogs love crates, but that's way too long during the day to be locked in one. Perhaps suggest leaving the door open so the poor dog can go and curl up in there if they want to, but stretch their legs and have a sniff about too.

The dog may prefer being shut in one room - my old dog (a Pointer) hated having the run of the house as it caused him great anxiety. However, my current dog (another Pointer!) prefers being able to go about the house, though we close certain doors because he loves our beds. As a very experienced dog owner, I would never, ever leave a dog alone for 8 or more hours. Gun dogs feel it even more as they're bred to be with their owners 24/7 and need that human contact, so she really should've thought of that before she got one (albeit a cross).

Sadly, this is a growing problem. People bought puppies during lockdown and know absolutely nothing about dogs whatsoever. Totally grinds my gears.

Please urge her to reconsider a dog walker!!!!!!

@RosieGuacamosie

My friend got a lockdown puppy last summer and is now having to go back to work in the office and is planning to leave her dog in a crate whilst she’s at work. I offered her the details of my dog Walker but at £15/day apparently that’s too expensive. I understand £75 a week is a lot of money but surely that should have been thought of at the time she got the dog?

I think it’s bad enough leaving a dog in the kitchen for 8 hours on it’s own, but to leave it in a crate seems extra cruel.

Am I being precious and the dog will actually sleep most of the time which is what everyone else seems to be saying? Friend pointed out it’s no different to leaving the dog downstairs whilst she sleeps for 8 hours.

Is she not coming home during her break to let the dog out/take for a walk. Is the dog expected to keep its legs crossed while she's at work.

I have dogs (now working from home but pre pandemic was in the office. My hours 7-4, partners hours 10-6 and daughter works 3 days on 3 days off.
My dog have free roam of down stairs and access to garden via dog door. I came hom at 12 to walk them, returning to work at 12.45. so on thereon from 0930 to 12. Then 1245 to 4 (other than days my daughter is off (she stays in during morning then goes out after lunch (dogs only on own 4 hours those days)
I don't believe in crating animals I think this is cruel, but both dogs have a safe space den they use when they wat timeout.
They sleep in there own beds upstairs so not allienated by being kept downstairs alone 8 hours.

At the very least your friend should come home during dinner to walk them

@MapleMay11

It's fine to put a dog in a crate for certain periods of time. I really dislike the use of the word "cage".

Sadly, it is just that - a cage. I've never had a dog that considers a 'cage' to be it's home. I can't imagine shutting any of my dogs away in a cage in my/their home ever.

Dogs are den animals It’s pretty natural instinct for them to want to be in a den environment, and a suitably-sized crate can be ideal

I’ve got 2 dogs. One would prefer to spread out on a bed or sofa, the other will choose to sleep in a crate or donut bed or alcove.

I’ve never used a crate as punishment for any dog and usually get rid of it after a couple of months but DDog2 made it very clear it was her favourite sleeping spot so it’s still in my kitchen taking up more space than us ideal
Roughly about half the dogs I’ve had just quite liked snuggling away in a den of some sorts
My old terrier boy would sleep in an alcove under the stairs by choice. There wasn’t even a dog bed in there

That poor dog.
Your friend is shit.
I would not be her friend, do not have time or patience for cruel abusive people

@cupsofcoffee
*Dog thefts are sadly on the rise and the vast majority are dogs that have been stolen from outdoor kennels, garden runs etc, so this really isn't something to be recommended. Besides, all it takes is for a delivery driver to leave the gate open and your dog is off up the road getting into all sorts of dangers.

And in the nicest way, how do you know the dog wasn't distressed, stressed or unhappy when you weren't there to see it?

Just because a dog hasn't had accidents or destroyed your furniture, doesn't mean they're unhappy. Many dogs who "just sleep all day" do so because they're bored and have nothing else to do, so it doesn't necessarily follow that quiet dog = happy dog.*

Terraced houses, secure garden, well known neighbours. He was a very relaxed dog. Never acted distressed. Neighbours could see him in the garden, hear him in the house. He was always happy to see us, but never cried when we left.

Lived til 17 years old a very content, fat, old Doby.

@GappyValley
I’ve got 2 dogs. One would prefer to spread out on a bed or sofa, the other will choose to sleep in a crate or donut bed or alcove.

I’ve never used a crate as punishment for any dog and usually get rid of it after a couple of months but DDog2 made it very clear it was her favourite sleeping spot so it’s still in my kitchen taking up more space than us ideal
Roughly about half the dogs I’ve had just quite liked snuggling away in a den of some sorts
My old terrier boy would sleep in an alcove under the stairs by choice. There wasn’t even a dog bed in there

Yes but in those scenarios a dog can actually get up and wander off somewhere else

Unlike a cage

A crate is a cage

@MrMeSeeks

That poor dog. Your friend is shit. I would not be her friend, do not have time or patience for cruel abusive people

I totally agree

People who mistreat animals for their own pathetic need or some convenience are a disgrace

@Cleverpolly3

My current dog sleeps in a crate/cage/whatever you want to call it

It isn’t cruel. It’s her choice. Pp said she had never met a dog that considered a crate it’s home
I’ve merely said mine does. She chooses to sleep in a crate above other options she has

@GappyValley - there is absolutely no comparison between a den and a cage. Dogs will always find places to tuck themselves away when they want a bit of peace and quiet. I find they're generally capable of finding somewhere suitable themselves. Mine certainly are.

Of course good dog owners like you will leave the cage door open so the dog is in charge of when it goes in/comes out. Unfortunately too many people misuse cages and their very existence seems to validate the idea that dogs can be locked up for indefinite periods when they're an inconvenience.

@ThankYouHunkyJesus

Report it to who?! Why is Mumsnet first reaction always "report it"!

It’s the adult equivalent of telling teacher.

I've had a bit of a read up. Apparently use of crates for dogs is illegal in Finland except for a couple of reasons. Wonder why that is?

that's horrific, you can't leave a young dog alone for that long, And will it even be 8 hrs or longer once a commute or traffic or a stop on the way home for milk are thrown in?? Dogs are social and not supposed to spend that amount of time alone regularly.

It's cruel. Call her out on the cruelty - if she can't afford some sort of day care for the dog, she shouldn't have got him, it's as simple as that. A dog in a crate all day is disgusting and anyone that condones it is equally as disgusting. Please put the innocent animal before your friendship with this person.

FWIW I had a 'friend' who was planning to do the same thing and I called him out on it and we had a blazing row, but it seemed to do the trick and he suddenly found ways to make sure the dog was tended to during the day.

[quote GappyValley]@Cleverpolly3

My current dog sleeps in a crate/cage/whatever you want to call it

It isn’t cruel. It’s her choice. Pp said she had never met a dog that considered a crate it’s home
I’ve merely said mine does. She chooses to sleep in a crate above other options she has[/quote]
Is the crate closed and locked or is it open?

Terraced houses, secure garden, well known neighbours. He was a very relaxed dog. Never acted distressed. Neighbours could see him in the garden, hear him in the house. He was always happy to see us, but never cried when we left.

I think you do have to accept that a big part of that is luck and down to your dogs' personality, though. I mean, it's great that it worked but it's not the solution for every household or every dog.

Many dogs wouldn't cope with that kind of lifestyle without becoming incredibly distressed, destructive or vocal.

Don't bother with the RSPCA, they don't give a stuff

As an addition to my post above, I regularly walk past two dogs who are left with the run of the garden/house when their owners are out or at walk.

I've not heard them cry, but they bark and growl at anyone or any dog that walks past. They don't look particularly settled or chilled out - in fact, they seem constantly "on edge" to see who is coming by their house. If I lived next door to dogs that make that kind of racket every time someone walked past the house, I wouldn't be best impressed.

I'm not sure the owners are aware of the noise, though.

@Sparklingbrook

I've had a bit of a read up. Apparently use of crates for dogs is illegal in Finland except for a couple of reasons. Wonder why that is?

Not just finland afaik. It's not illegal I think where I am from, but we find it a horrible practice. Most people I know have dogs, some are house dogs, most are predominantly outside. No one I know there uses a crate. Dogs have their beds inside, their dog houses outside, but I have not seen the cage ever. First time I sae it was UK and I was gobsmacked. Still am

I’ve used crates before

My previous dog loved his crate and would take himself to it at night time (door open)

With my two now, when I got a puppy whilst already having a dog, I used the crate to give the puppy a chance to sleep in peace as the older dog was pestering her all the time to play

We don’t need to use crates anymore

god what a nasty pair of cows

Personally I think you should tell this 'friend' that she's being a selfish bitch, and that she should get the poor dog re-homed if she's too tight/too skint, to pay for someone to care for it while she's at work. Dreadful way to treat an animal!

this is not about the use of crates or cages - this is about using one SHUT for 8 hours - that is not what they are intended for AT ALL.

This is about an irresponsible dog owner who did not consider their return to work
This is about an irresponsible dog owner who can not or will not pay a dog walker .

Stop generalising to make a point .

Everyone becomes an "expert" and stops using common sense .

Of course this is cruel .

As I said before I bet the dog ends up being rehomed and I am betting as well they did not research the breed properly either .

We had a dog growing up but the first time I saw a dog crate was in my adult friend's smallish kitchen there was this ginormous cage for the dog. Not sure why he couldn't just hang out/have his bed in the kitchen in the space the cage occupied TBH.

We have 3 dogs and I'd never crate them like that. Im home all day and work evenings, when dh and the kids are home. I've started to leave them in the lounge together if I need to pop to the shop and so only crated for bed but this will stop when the dog room is ready.

I wouldn't leave my 9 month old puppy for that long and she has the run of the house! In a crate is absolutely unacceptable, that poor dog!