Photo ID needed to vote? Please no.

[flashbac]

The government are bringing in (photo) voter ID meaning you'll need to show your passport or driving licence when going to cast your vote.

By all means reform the postal voting system but not this. Not everyone drives or goes abroad and this will bar many people from voting. Driving licences and passports are not cheap.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care?

@PlanDeRaccordement

Some people can't afford an extra £17 on any given week

That’s why you have 18yrs to save up that £17 so your DC can get their first ID card. Then that DC has 10yrs to save up another £17 to renew it.

I just do not believe this “some people so poor they don’t have two pennies” line.

And even if I did believe, ah yes, £1.70 per year is far too much to expect a poor person to save....then voila simple solution is to waive the fee for those on low incomes/disability benefits. Like we waive all visa fees for asylum refugees.....

Oh well now I have to plan and save up in advance TO BE ABLE TO VOTE?

This is a fundamental right that is being potentially taken away from people...

@skirk64

Sounds like a good idea, it's not much to ask for people to prove their identity when casting their vote. As long as plenty of notice is given so that people can apply for a passport if they don't already have one.

And those who can't afford it? Whose choice is between rent that week and a passport? Or food and a driving licence.

I'm completely against this unless free photo ID is provided by the government and replaced without question. Homeless people face enough discrimination without being further excluded from the democratic process.

Genuine question. If people have no form of photo identification how are they proving their right to work in this country? Every job these days needs to check the applicants right to work and you need ID to open up a bank account so how are people managing without it?

@ParentOfOne
My point was those without passports are already penalised by paying more.
I get why, it needs physical processing vs digital but it doesn’t sit right with me.

During lockdown to renew my driving license I had to go to not the nearest town (as only a few do it) pay to park, queue up at the post office, pick up the form.
Go home, take the photo, pay for it to be developed and posted, go back to the post office and send it recorded (as that’s what they advised).
All in all it was about double what a valid passport holder could do, plus all the additional covid risk.

@cronk23

Genuine question. If people have no form of photo identification how are they proving their right to work in this country? Every job these days needs to check the applicants right to work and you need ID to open up a bank account so how are people managing without it?

Because there are ways around it, because it's acknowledged that not everyone had photo ID.

In full agreement with those who have said only if the government provides everyone with a photo ID card.
I have neither a driving license or a passport which I know is strange but not illegal so why should I be refused my right to vote. I get on just fine in day to day life, have a job, got married and bought a house all without photo ID.

You should definitely need ID to vote to help stop voter fraud. I’m amazed that people think it’s OK to vote without ID. I mean what if a vulnerable person had their polling card stolen? We actually had someone else’s card sent to us (it was in my husband’s envelope) and we could have easily voted for him. Not cool.

@JustMarriedAndLovingIt

You should definitely need ID to vote to help stop voter fraud. I’m amazed that people think it’s OK to vote without ID. I mean what if a vulnerable person had their polling card stolen? We actually had someone else’s card sent to us (it was in my husband’s envelope) and we could have easily voted for him. Not cool.

At the polling station they would have only given you one cars though?

You could have got someone else to go in of course and pretended to be that person. But it would take some head scratching to organise that on a large scale, and not get caught out by the actual person going in to vote

They've already trialled it in this country using a few different methods. LSE produced a report on the outcomes which demonstrated that whatever the system used or requirements of ID (free etc) ANY requirement substantially suppressed voter participation. When the conservatives came into office in 2010 one of their key manifesto pledges was to scrap the universal ID scheme being rolled out by Labour. Johnson is also on record as saying he would stick any government required ID in a blender. There's only one reason this requirement is being bought in by a supposed libertarian party, voter suppression.

@JustMarriedAndLovingIt

You should definitely need ID to vote to help stop voter fraud. I’m amazed that people think it’s OK to vote without ID. I mean what if a vulnerable person had their polling card stolen? We actually had someone else’s card sent to us (it was in my husband’s envelope) and we could have easily voted for him. Not cool.

But voter ID won't stop voter fraud enough to make it OK to deny people their right to vote. Because voter fraud is ridiculously low anyway.

@00100001
This is a fundamental right that is being potentially taken away from people...

No it’s not. You’re being overly dramatic.

@JustMarriedAndLovingIt

You should definitely need ID to vote to help stop voter fraud. I’m amazed that people think it’s OK to vote without ID. I mean what if a vulnerable person had their polling card stolen? We actually had someone else’s card sent to us (it was in my husband’s envelope) and we could have easily voted for him. Not cool.

Our polling cards don't even come in envelopes The postman could steal them if he so wished.

@Domino20

They've already trialled it in this country using a few different methods. LSE produced a report on the outcomes which demonstrated that whatever the system used or requirements of ID (free etc) ANY requirement substantially suppressed voter participation. When the conservatives came into office in 2010 one of their key manifesto pledges was to scrap the universal ID scheme being rolled out by Labour. Johnson is also on record as saying he would stick any government required ID in a blender. There's only one reason this requirement is being bought in by a supposed libertarian party, voter suppression.

So, 2,000 without ID were turned away, and 750 did not return (to that polling station)

• How do they know all 750 actually had the right to vote?
• How do they know that all 750 didn’t just go to a different polling station that didn’t require ID?

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@00100001
This is a fundamental right that is being potentially taken away from people...

No it’s not. You’re being overly dramatic.[/quote]
Ok. So you turn up to vote at 9:45pm on the way home from work, because it's the only opportunity you have to vote.

You were pickpocketed on the way home. You queue up, they ask for Is, you go to produce it...it's not there.

You cannot vote.

No. Tough luck. No vote. Don't care that it wasn't your fault. No vote for you.

Or you lose your photo ID a few days before voting, you dutifully ask for a replacement. It doesn't arrive in time. Tough luck. You can't vote.

@JustMarriedAndLovingIt

You should definitely need ID to vote to help stop voter fraud. I’m amazed that people think it’s OK to vote without ID. I mean what if a vulnerable person had their polling card stolen? We actually had someone else’s card sent to us (it was in my husband’s envelope) and we could have easily voted for him. Not cool.

“What if” is not the same as something that a) Has actually happened or b) Is a widespread problem with a lot of supping evidence.

Don’t any of you advocating this wonder why its suddenly important at this time? Where is the campaign for it? Where is the evidence its needed? Why is it a priority?

@PlanDeRaccordement you can't just turn up at may polling station and vote...you have to go to your polling station. That's how they know the 750 people didn't go elsewhere.

haven't read full thread but they CLEARLY said they are aware of this and will be looking at other valid ID .

It's just draining how people jump in and kick off before the idea has even got off the ground and they are aware and looking for a solution

Photo id to vote isn't to prevent people from placing multiple votes, its to stop people placing any vote.

It's worrying how many people are perfectly happy for unnecessary barriers to be put in place to stop people voting.

It's been shown that even free schemes reduce turnout, usually impacting socially disadvantaged and the less educated disproportionately.

No wonder the tories are all for it, eh?

I'd rather there was a campaign for people on benefits to get "passport fee relief" and pay nothing for a passport, than block photo ID. Electoral fraud is real.

Electoral fraud is real.
These statements keep cropping up but there's no supporting evidence. Available evidence suggests the problem is minimal.

@Serpenta

Voter fraud in the UK is almost non-existent. This is just the Tories copying from the Republican's Big Book of Voter Suppression.

It isn't non-existant at all. I've never understood the general animosity towards ID cards, we carry so much already and an ID card would allow everyone to vote once and once only.

Have we seen any empirical evidence of this from Northern Ireland, where this practise is already standard?

@EvilPea I suppose I have been unclear. Let me try to clarify.

I am against the introduction of compulsory ID to vote in countries like the UK and the USA, where there isn't any piece of documentation which is compulsory and available freely or at a low cost to the entire population, and where it has not been proven that electoral fraud is such a serious issue that it warrants ID. Indeed, it is no coincidence that in both countries it is the right which wants to introduce these measures as a way to make it as hard as possible to vote for certain parts of the population which would most likely not vote for them.

Show me compelling evidence that electoral fraud is such a serious issue and I will change my mind. Until then, I won't.

I am however in favour of national ID cards, which should remain free (ie paid for by general taxation, not by each user) as they are in France, because the current system is ludicrous, inefficient, and penalises those (typically the poorest) who don't travel abroad and don't drive, so have no passport nor driving licence, without which any bureaucratic task can be a huge nightmare.

@00100001 You say there are ways around it if you don't have a passport. To prove identity, maybe, but to prove citizenship??

Can you please answer the question I asked a few pages back? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4240898-Photo-ID-needed-to-vote-Please-no?msgid=107300648

If you are a UK citizen because you were born here from a British parent, but your grandfather was a citizen because he was born here from parents legally settled here but who never became citizens, how do you prove you are a citizen? Other than through the immigration records of your great-grandparents? And good luck finding those.

I know the child, now in her mid 20s, of a European couple, who had to provide documents showing his parents' work and immigration status when she was born, ie more than 20 years ago. Luckily they had them, but how many retain 25-year old records? Without those records she would not have been able to prove she was, in fact, born a British citizen.

THIS is why a system of national ID cards makes sense.

@DynamoKev

Electoral fraud is real. These statements keep cropping up but there's no supporting evidence. Available evidence suggests the problem is minimal.

There’s little evidence because measurements of U.K. electoral fraud depends entirely on concerned citizens filing allegations of fraud with the police.

No other government body depends entirely on allegations by randoms as a measure of fraud.

Imagine HMRC depending 100% on citizens filing allegations of tax or benefit fraud and not conducting any audits or requiring any proof of income documentation whatsoever.

Imagine MPs not having to make any financial disclosures and the existence of conflicts of interest and corruption only being measured by allegations made by another person.

Imagine opening a bank account (or closing one and taking cash) with no identification whatsoever and fraud only being identified as existing on the basis of a random bystander alleging, hey that bloke you just gave £3k to isnt John Smith of 123 Pheasant Place.

That said, your own independent (Not Tory, Not Labour,) U.K. elections watchdog and electoral commission has recommended multiple times that photo ID is a needed step to counter voter fraud.
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/id-needed-polling-stations-recommends-independent-watchdog

And
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/sites/default/files/pdf_file/Electoral-fraud-review-final-report.pdf

In addition, they have reported that the pilots done using voter ID were successful
www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/our-views-and-research/parliamentary-and-senedd-briefings/briefing-our-evaluation-voter-id-pilots