To be cross with our childminder?

[ranging]

Name changed.

DD has been going to the same childminder since she was 8 months and she is now 2.5. She absolutely loves it there and she's very kind and friendly, I get lots of crafts home that DD does and they go out and do a lot.

DD is going through a challenging phase, not doing as she's told, very stubborn, sometimes hitting and biting.

When I picked her up on Friday, the childminder said that she had taken her shoes and socks off in the car and was refusing to put them back on, so she took her out the car and put him on the (wet and muddy) ground in her bare feet and told her basically that's what you get for not putting your shoes on. She apparently got upset by this and then finally allowed her to put her shoes back on.

I was a bit taken aback by this, AIBU to tell her I am not happy about this at all? I'm not sure if this is an ok tactic to use with a toddler but I never would and don't want anyone else to treat her like that either.

@WaltzingBetty

Yes, they can tell the difference between being lifted out of the car (happy) and being lifted out of the car and put on the mud with no shoes on (sad). They can’t tell the difference between what makes the happy thing sad - so the OP’s 2.5 year old could well do the same thing tomorrow with no understanding of ‘no shoes equals standing on the mud barefoot’

You're very definitive for someone with no actual knowledge of child cognition or learning.

And Vn limited comprehension skills...

@WaltzingBetty

What?

I love that you have absolutely no idea about learning, child development or cognition and have admitted that but are still convinced you're right and have nothing to learn

Ignorance really is (arrogant) bliss

I very obviously know more about child brain development than you do, and insulting me doesn’t change that.

@WaltzingBetty

Yes, they can tell the difference between being lifted out of the car (happy) and being lifted out of the car and put on the mud with no shoes on (sad). They can’t tell the difference between what makes the happy thing sad - so the OP’s 2.5 year old could well do the same thing tomorrow with no understanding of ‘no shoes equals standing on the mud barefoot’

You're very definitive for someone with no actual knowledge of child cognition or learning.

Garbage. But you know that, or you’d explain why I’m wrong. I’m not.

@Pumperthepumper seriously step away from your keyboard. Read The Whole Brain Child - children at 2.5yo having a tantrum are in their emotional brain, they don’t hear reasoning in that state, but they do perceive other senses and the tactile feeling of wet feet was probably quite grounding for her. It’s not punishment to say “oh, you don’t want to wear your shoes, okay you stand there and tell me if it feels nice or if you might want your shoes after all?”. It’s respectful, it’s giving the child choice and the opportunity to change their mind. There is a middle ground that isn’t punitive but also isn’t so passive that children never have their behaviour challenged. My sister is a Child Psychologist and often sees children who are actually really struggling with a lack of appropriate boundaries. When her own 2/3yo was having a tantrum she’d put her in the hallway and say “I can’t let you kick/hit etc, but I’ll be in the kitchen if you want a hug”.

Garbage. But you know that, or you’d explain why I’m wrong. I’m not.

I have explained it.

I've also asked you several questions.

Your response to all of them has been 'what?'

It's not the most persuasive evidence of your expertise....

‘Yes, they can tell the difference between being lifted out of the car (happy) and being lifted out of the car and put on the mud with no shoes on (sad). They can’t tell the difference between what makes the happy thing sad - so the OP’s 2.5 year old could well do the same thing tomorrow with no understanding of ‘no shoes equals standing on the mud barefoot’’

Do you have children @Pumperthepumper? Your perception of how much a 2.5 year old understands is so wrong and I say that as someone who currently has a 2.5 year old. We use natural consequences and she very much understands and responds to them.

I very obviously know more about child brain development than you do, and insulting me doesn’t change that

What?
I don't understand this

But OBVIOUSLY I know more!

[quote AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo]**@Pumperthepumper* seriously step away from your keyboard. Read The Whole Brain Child - children at 2.5yo having a tantrum are in their emotional brain, they don’t hear reasoning in that state, but they do perceive other senses and the tactile feeling of wet feet was probably quite grounding for her. It’s not punishment to say “oh, you don’t want to wear your shoes, okay you stand there and tell me if it feels nice or if you might want your shoes after all?”. It’s respectful, it’s giving the child choice and the opportunity to change their mind. There is* a middle ground that isn’t punitive but also isn’t so passive that children never have their behaviour challenged. My sister is a Child Psychologist and often sees children who are actually really struggling with a lack of appropriate boundaries. When her own 2/3yo was having a tantrum she’d put her in the hallway and say “I can’t let you kick/hit etc, but I’ll be in the kitchen if you want a hug”.[/quote]
I’ve read the Whole Brain Child, I used it in my dissertation actually. It’s far from a perfect model of child development and got a lot of criticism - and it’s now 10 years old.

@WaltzingBetty

Garbage. But you know that, or you’d explain why I’m wrong. I’m not.

I have explained it.

I've also asked you several questions.

Your response to all of them has been 'what?'

It's not the most persuasive evidence of your expertise....

I can’t understand your posts. What do you want me to answer? And why, if you think I don’t know what I’m talking about?

@TruffleShuffles

‘Yes, they can tell the difference between being lifted out of the car (happy) and being lifted out of the car and put on the mud with no shoes on (sad). They can’t tell the difference between what makes the happy thing sad - so the OP’s 2.5 year old could well do the same thing tomorrow with no understanding of ‘no shoes equals standing on the mud barefoot’’

Do you have children @Pumperthepumper? Your perception of how much a 2.5 year old understands is so wrong and I say that as someone who currently has a 2.5 year old. We use natural consequences and she very much understands and responds to them.

I have children, have studied child development, and work with children.

I can’t believe ‘don’t punish very little children’ is this controversial to people. On a parenting forum.

@ranging

I've read your posts, not the full thread tho. But the ones I read were really critical of you, so although it's late in the thread, I wanted to come on to say, I wouldn't be happy, and don't think this was great by the CM.

Unless I've missed something, DD was taking shoes & socks off in the car? So what?

When CM arrived home, she should just have quickly put them on with no big fuss, carried her in or used the buggy. I wouldn't be asking the DC or anything. I'd be firm & just do it. I've 3 children & I don't take any nonsense, but I can't see what was to be gained with deliberately putting her on the cold wet ground.

Apologies if I've missed something but I can't see that YABU here!

However I probably wouldn't say anything, if she's otherwise great.

@WaltzingBetty

I very obviously know more about child brain development than you do, and insulting me doesn’t change that

What?
I don't understand this

But OBVIOUSLY I know more!

You haven’t demonstrated that you know more, you’ve mainly just been insulting.

@nanbread

I'm with you OP.

If she'd said, ok let's walk without shoes then and your DD had willingly done so and then got muddy etc that's one thing. But this is another.

Yes, this!

I can’t understand your posts. What do you want me to answer? And why, if you think I don’t know what I’m talking about?

Yep

You don't understand my posts or questions, (which are pretty obvious to anyone who knows anything about learning) have clearly no idea about the science of child psychology and yet you keep insisting that you know more

I find it odd that someone can be so aware of their own ignorance and yet still be determined that they're right and that the science is wrong.

I can’t believe ‘don’t punish very little children’ is this controversial to people

Well said @Pumperthepumper

Wow lots of replies @ranging and I've not read one!

Usually I'm quick to attack childminders (seen too much unfortunately) but I have to say I can see the reasoning behind it and glad she was honest and told you- believe me, many wouldn't!

Would I be happy if cm did this to mine... no. I see the theory behind it but feel as a mum only I do things like that. I'd have preferred she ask me to work on it- however that would potentially mean child had a screaming fit while cm put the shoes on.

I'd mention to cm that in future another way/ suggestions you give are preferred by you but she may have fought dd about wearing shoes!

Tough one.

You haven’t demonstrated that you know more, you’ve mainly just been insulting.

You clearly missed the sarcasm

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@ranging

I've read your posts, not the full thread tho. But the ones I read were really critical of you, so although it's late in the thread, I wanted to come on to say, I wouldn't be happy, and don't think this was great by the CM.

Unless I've missed something, DD was taking shoes & socks off in the car? So what?

When CM arrived home, she should just have quickly put them on with no big fuss, carried her in or used the buggy. I wouldn't be asking the DC or anything. I'd be firm & just do it. I've 3 children & I don't take any nonsense, but I can't see what was to be gained with deliberately putting her on the cold wet ground.

Apologies if I've missed something but I can't see that YABU here!

However I probably wouldn't say anything, if she's otherwise great. [/quote]
They weren’t going home. They were going to the park.

@WaltzingBetty

I can’t understand your posts. What do you want me to answer? And why, if you think I don’t know what I’m talking about?

Yep

You don't understand my posts or questions, (which are pretty obvious to anyone who knows anything about learning) have clearly no idea about the science of child psychology and yet you keep insisting that you know more

I find it odd that someone can be so aware of their own ignorance and yet still be determined that they're right and that the science is wrong.

What questions do you want me to answer?

@EarringsandLipstick

I can’t believe ‘don’t punish very little children’ is this controversial to people

Well said @Pumperthepumper

Thanks @EarringsandLipstick

@EarringsandLipstick

I can’t believe ‘don’t punish very little children’ is this controversial to people

Well said @Pumperthepumper

It isn't But punishment is a wide scale and varies depending on the perception of the learner.

How Is not forcing the child to wear shoes punishing if the child didn't want to wear shoes ?

@WaltzingBetty

You haven’t demonstrated that you know more, you’ve mainly just been insulting.

You clearly missed the sarcasm

I did, yes. I missed the sarcasm when you called me dim. What questions do you want me to answer?

Jeeeez, I feel sorry for the childminders.

@angstridden2

Oh dear Lord, please tell me this whole scenario and reaction to the CM’s handling is made up. I can’t believe any sensible adult would over react like this. I would imagine the CM can’t wait for her contract to mind this child to end,

Well that's ironic! You talk about an over-reaction but then assert that because of once incident, the CM must wish the contract to be over.

Nonsense.

@AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo

Jeeeez, I feel sorry for the childminders.

It really is no wonder so many are leaving the profession.