Aggressive dog should be muzzled?

[OdiesMum]

Where I live we have a long pedestrianised walkway down the side of the house, big grass verges on either side, a lovely walk for dogs as no roads and no danger. Lots of people let their dogs off lead around here to play with each other, myself included. My dog is a friendly little thing who just loves to play. The locals have used this area to exercise dogs for years.
Recently a woman has been on the grass verge with a Dobermann. She has it on a long line and throws balls for him etc on the grass. Last week my dog ran over to hers to play and her dog went ballistic and almost pulled her over. I was terrified it would get away from her!! I ran to get my dog and she shouted at me that mine should be on a lead. I politely explained that people use this area to let their dogs play and she said hers was dog aggressive which is why it’s on a long line and so should everyone else’s dog be on lines. I didn’t get into an argument with her, just got my dog and walked away. This morning I was talking to another dog Walker who said to watch out for the Dobermann on a long line as it had attacked her dog!!! If I see her again I’m going to tell her to muzzle the bloody thing. Why take your aggressive dog to an area where there are off lead dogs?? AIbU?

I don't think you should let your dog approach a dog obviously on a long lead.

You're both unreasonable. She shouldn't have her dog on such a long lead if it's aggressive. She also shoulkd be able to control it better and I'd have it muzzled if I was her. However, you shouldn't be letting your off-lead dog run up to other on-lead dogs. It's very basic dog walking ettiquette and pretty negligent on your part.

You are being very unreasonable. She is restricting her dog as she may be aware it has issues. Your dog running up to hers with you not intervening is your problem. In the eyes of the law, if something had happened you would be responsible.

If you can’t control your dog, you need to put it on a lead. I hate when dogs run up to mine (she doesn’t like interaction) and owners say ‘they’re just playing’. No, take control of your dog. Always ask first and it’s common courtesy to put your dog on a wad of you are sharing space with another dog on a lead.

I agree with most on this thread. I have a very reactive rescue GSD....she's lovely on her lead, will play, fetch a ball etc. But if an off lead dog approaches her, she goes ballistic barking and lunging. It's complete fear...I've seen her chased by a tiny dog and hiding behind me on the ground crying....heartbreaking. Now she's getting more confident, but an off lead dog could put her progress way back.

@vivainsomnia 'An aggressive dog likely to bite should be muzzled end of.'

But sadly you are missing the point.

If I take my dog on a walk (who is scared of other dogs and may bite them, but fine with children and people), I have him safely on a lead, with a pocket full of treats and we are working on his confidence/training etc. I am totally in control of him. We are minding our own business. He is not a danger to anyone or any dog.

Then let's say, you then let your dog run over to mine, your dog starts jumping up and my dog bites your dog. That's your fault. I am not going to muzzle my dog when we are doing nothing wrong. We are minding our own business and you would be the one to cause the violence. You would be totally at fault in that instance.

@vivainsomnia you are letting your dog down by continuing this. If your dog is attacked then I’m sorry but it will be your fault and legally you will be responsible. Why do that to yourself, your dog, another dog and another owner? It’s selfish on your part, really selfish.

And you say it’s never happened - it only takes once.

My dog was bitten badly when she was on the lead by another dog off the lead. That other dogs owner said their dog was usually fine, but it matches up to mine and bit mine in the face. You have no idea what is going on with dogs, you can never know your dogs every move. You’re being very unfair to everyone involved, especially your own dog.

Sorry, but regardless of anything else, your dog should not run up to another to play unless you know that the owner is ok with that. And your recall should be such that you can call it away from any other dog.

My dog is normally off lead - but he largely ignores any dog he doesn't know / normally play with (which is only a few, and with owners agreement); and he comes back to recall the minute he is told to, not when he feels like it. In the situation you describe, if the dog attacks yours then it is your fault - you should have it under control.

And since we have no idea whether the other dog that it allegedly attacked did the same thing as yours, and all the evidence is that it is being kept under control, then I suggest you mind your own business. FWIIW many dogs object to having their playtime with their owner and their toys interrupted; and can be possessive about their toy. That doesn't necessarily make them aggressive. It means your dog shouldn't be making them feel uncomfortable. My dog wouldn't protect his fetch toys like that, but he makes it bloody clear that he does not want to share his toy/game, but there's always some idiot around who thinks it's ok for their dog to rush over and "just be friendly".

Let’s be honest, you just don’t like her because she’s an “outsider”

By law your dog (and hers) need to be under control in public at all times. Technically hers was as it was on a lead and didn’t approach your dog. Yours was out of control and caused the incident

Just because you’re a local, you’re disregarding the law. You have self designated it an “off lead” dog area when the law still states it’s a public area where dogs need to be kept under control. If your dog approaches other dogs, you need to leash it

I can see both sides here, having had a reactive dog who needed to be kept away from dogs he didn't know, other than for controlled introductions. Not a buyer, but a barker and chaser.

If I see a dog that is being exercised on a lead or longline I will call my dogs away: it might be aggressive or injured. However, since lockdown the number of dog walkers has gone through the roof locally, and many of those have dogs are on leads (usually extending ones) not because they have issues but because they have no recall. I'm fed up of avoiding people that it turns out I don't need to avoid, and calling my dogs in when I don't need to. 'Oh,' they say. 'He's friendly...'

*not a biter

As PPs have mentioned you should always put your dog on a lead if you see another on a lead. It's doggy etiquette. I do think though that aggressive dogs should be muzzled regardless. Or at the very least should have a high vis jacket warning. I would also worry about, cats, wildlife, small children.

An aggressive dog likely to bite should be muzzled end of.

This is purely your opinion, and it's nonsense I'm afraid, for all the reasons people have pointed out.

An aggressive (though as has been explained, they're often terrified in reality) dog should be kept under control. That is all.

Mine is reactive because she's terrified. We can count on at least one dog charging up to her on every walk, or being allowed to approach on lead, even though it's bloody obvious I'm trying to control, soothe and distract her.

No way am I adding to her fear and helplessness by muzzling her. Last time she was attacked was in January and she has permanent scarring. If she hadn't bitten the dog back, it could have been even worse.

As the owner of an elderly dog (walked on the lead), who has a back disease and would scream with pain at the need to get out of the way of your uncontrolled dog, I'd be very cross with you.

Probably not the responses you expected but the ladies dog probably didn’t like your dog running up to it.

Op, do not let your dogs run up to other dogs even if it’s in your words ‘friendly’. Not all dogs like dogs running up to them - mine included. Train it to have better re call keep it on a lead.

My dog is unbothered by dogs until they come into her personal space. If they come into her personal space she barks and barks. She probably looks aggressive but she really isn’t - she’s just nervous. Because of the amount of dogs off lead with no re call where I live I’ve had to walk her really early or late to avoid inconsiderate twats.

If you can't prevent your dog approaching others then it should be on a lead.
If you can prevent your dog approaching others but choose not to then you're an irresponsible owner.

Why do I get the feeling that friendly little thing who just loves to play is a euphemism for 'poorly trained dog who I allow to run where it likes and will probably show absolutely no understanding that dog socialisation is not the same as allowing my dog to run wild?

I'm with pp. Your dog shouldn't be going up to dogs on a lead or even off a lead without permission. If you can't recall it, it shouldn't be off

Aggressive dogs can be PTS in some cases where there is just fear or threat of harm, so to protect the aggressive dog, it should be muzzled and be kept on a lead /line.
Dogs allowed off lead should equally be kept under control at all times (have a lead on or be absolutely controlled under command at all times).
Sensible re-homing organisations will only release potentially aggressive/triggered dogs with a muzzle/lead agreement, they should understand the law surrounding this topic.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

I can see both sides here, having had a reactive dog who needed to be kept away from dogs he didn't know, other than for controlled introductions. Not a buyer, but a barker and chaser.

If I see a dog that is being exercised on a lead or longline I will call my dogs away: it might be aggressive or injured. However, since lockdown the number of dog walkers has gone through the roof locally, and many of those have dogs are on leads (usually extending ones) not because they have issues but because they have no recall. I'm fed up of avoiding people that it turns out I don't need to avoid, and calling my dogs in when I don't need to. 'Oh,' they say. 'He's friendly...'

Mine are on leads, they're both friendly and separately have excellent recall. Both together they're a fucking nightmare and liable to run off, especially if another excitable dog comes to say hello. Is that ok with you 🙄

Not all dogs are responsive to recall training, friendly or not

As the owner of a leash reactive dog YABVVVVVU and quite frankly a twat. I'm sick of owners like you justifying your lack of control of your off leash dog on the basis "he's friendly". The stress that this causes is huge and I certainly won't be adding to this by making my dog wear a muzzle.

Aggressive dogs can be PTS in some cases where there is just fear or threat of harm

Only if it's not under control. A muzzle is not a legal requirement.

Oh dear - I don't think this thread has gone the way OP was hoping it would 🤣

@frankiefirstyear

Aggressive dogs can be PTS in some cases where there is just fear or threat of harm, so to protect the aggressive dog, it should be muzzled and be kept on a lead /line. Dogs allowed off lead should equally be kept under control at all times (have a lead on or be absolutely controlled under command at all times). Sensible re-homing organisations will only release potentially aggressive/triggered dogs with a muzzle/lead agreement, they should understand the law surrounding this topic.

Dogs have no requirement to be muzzled by law unless they are on the dangerous dogs act or have bitten humans in the past and have been told to via the courts

I am not sure I would walk a dog that had dog issues in an area that traditionally is where people let their dogs off lead to play, very few dogs have 100% recall 100% of the time. Personally I would also be tempted to muzzle train it, I wouldn't want another dog getting hurt, even if its the owners fault if it did.

I walk a very anxious rescue dog.
She attacks other dogs and struggles to handle her emotions . She has had a tereible time and had a nervous illness which affected her coat. She has had a terrible time .
I keep her on a lead .
If another off lead dog approaches her i call to the owner to be aware of her history and her fear reaction. Most put theirs on a lead quick. If people do not do that then ive done all i can. The dog is a kind and terrified dog . Your dog should not be left off lead in this sitiation . You need to take responsibity .

But sadly you are missing the point
I’m not. I totally agree with what you said, but it’s not at all the situation OP found herself in, nor the situations I described.

A aggressive dog on a long leash in an area where dogs run free is not keeping it under control because dogs could be within the parameters of the long lead without running to that dog. It should either be on a short lead or muzzled.

Both sides have responsibilities, aggressive or reactive dogs don’t get to rule an area enjoyed by friendly dogs just because they have issues.