Aggressive dog should be muzzled?

[OdiesMum]

Where I live we have a long pedestrianised walkway down the side of the house, big grass verges on either side, a lovely walk for dogs as no roads and no danger. Lots of people let their dogs off lead around here to play with each other, myself included. My dog is a friendly little thing who just loves to play. The locals have used this area to exercise dogs for years.
Recently a woman has been on the grass verge with a Dobermann. She has it on a long line and throws balls for him etc on the grass. Last week my dog ran over to hers to play and her dog went ballistic and almost pulled her over. I was terrified it would get away from her!! I ran to get my dog and she shouted at me that mine should be on a lead. I politely explained that people use this area to let their dogs play and she said hers was dog aggressive which is why it’s on a long line and so should everyone else’s dog be on lines. I didn’t get into an argument with her, just got my dog and walked away. This morning I was talking to another dog Walker who said to watch out for the Dobermann on a long line as it had attacked her dog!!! If I see her again I’m going to tell her to muzzle the bloody thing. Why take your aggressive dog to an area where there are off lead dogs?? AIbU?

It is on lead for a reason
Which thankfully is rarely because they are aggressive and likely to bite but usually because of poor recall.

An aggressive dog likely to bite should be muzzled end of.

@vivainsomnia

it doesn't matter if it's gently or straight. You DO NOT let your dog approach a leashed dog Allow me to disagree as do most in real life thankfully. I have had no issue in real life and that’s with 2 or 3 walks a day, in the streets, local park and open areas for a few years.

The worse that has happened is my dog being growled at. Perfectly fine. She never comes up straight to the dog.

if you do have a dog that is likely to bite, it shouldn’t be on a long lead, unmuzzled especially in an area where it is common for dogs to be unleashed. How can you possibly judge the distance? Or do you expect all dogs to stay 10 metres away?

Disagree all you like but try and listen for a moment!

YOU have had no issues. What about the dogs and owners you encounter?

The worst that has happened FOR YOU is that you and your dog got growled at. The worst for the other dog is that it's fear and anxieties were reinforced, it's owner has to retreat and restart training to reduse their dog's fears again .

It's not about biting - and muzzles are not a good fix for all dogs. It's about reactive behaviour. Mine isn't aggressive, he won't bite. He is just over excited and has difficulty controlling his arousal levels. That isn't comfortable for either of us!

And yes, stay away. I make the decision on how close to walk my dog towards yours. You only have to continue on your way, I'll do the avoiding. You have no grounds to decide for me!

In areas where it is common for dogs to be unleashed then they should have proper recall. Mine does. Off lead he can be relied upon to stop, check in with me and return. Most of the dogs we meet in the local off lead space do not!

Again, it is not about how you see it. It is not about aggression. It is not about doggies running free.

YABU. You shouldn't have let your dog run up to a dog on a line. That might have told you that the dog is aggressive?

It drives me completely nuts when owners let their off lead dogs run up to on lead dogs

My old boy hated being hassled by other dogs, he just wanted to mind his own business and go for a walk - guess who was accused of being the “aggressive dog who should be muzzled” when he finally got fed up with being repeatedly hassled and snapped?

I now have a very timid girl, she needs a little bit of time to warm up to other dogs, but is fine with dogs she knows (lock down put the kybosh on her socialisation so we’ve had to start from scratch again) and other dogs running up to her scares her.

Dogs are not always on a lead because they are aggressive, some dogs are just scared of being around other dogs. It is really unpleasant to have another dog running up to your dog if it is not comfortable with that and I wish other dog owners could just appreciate that.

Sorry but YABU. Your error here was allowing your dog to approach another dog that was on lead. It being on lead is the owner communicating that their dog might need space (or has poor recall!) My current dog is absolutely fine, apart from when small energetic dogs bound over to him / jump at him / pester. He's an old boy with arthritis and thin skin (which tears easily if jumped on/play- pawed at). The sheer amount of times he's had other dogs run up to him, he (appropriately!) growls or barks to ask them to back off and I get responses from the owner of "oh don't worry he/she is friendly, only wants to play"... It's utterly infuriating. My parents always taught me that it was good dog etiquette to not let yours run up to others, particularly if the other dog is on any kind of lead - as was the case in your situation.

Curious, there’s no need to project your experience onto mine. I always make small talk with the owners of the dogs mine approaches. If they were annoyed, angry or worried, I would know it. It’s not hard to pick up when a dog acts anxious.

The couple of occasions when she got growled at was ironically when she was on the lead and we passed the other dog on the narrow pavement. They apologised. I said it was no big deal.

When I read threads here about dogs behaviour, I feel I am on another planet where most dogs are friendly and those that are not are kept away from areas commonly used by unleashed friendly dogs.

@vivainsomnia

Skits to add that I find this attitude that dogs on leads should never approached very sad. 9 out of 1p dogs if not more that we approach are friendly and welcome the interaction and are on the lead because of their issue with recall. It would be so sad for these dogs if they never got to interact with others unless taken in enclosed places which is often not possible on a regular let alone daily basis. I actually had owners thanking me for letting my dog approach theirs for that reason.

Common sense and a gentle approach should prevail.

A quick call of "is your dog friendly" suffices for distinguishing between the 'nice but naughty' and 'less than friendly' ones.

For instance, the other day I was going through part of the park where ddog goes on lead because it's right next to a road. Just as I was about to let him back off, I saw an on lead lab. A quick call of "is your dog friendly" produced a response of "no, thanks for asking though!" and so I kept mine on lead for a minute until we'd passed. No drama.

Now, if a dog owner on lead is marching towards me and DDog with their on lead dog (especially if it looks young and undertrained), I tend to assume they're unconcerned about an interaction - particularly if we're in the local park that is FULL of dogs. If they look like they're trying to avoid us, then I avoid them like the plague.

Communication solves many of these matters. Unfortunately, it's all to common that when the owner of a reactive dog says "can you keep your dog away from mine please" the response is "my dog is friendly".... Err, yes, but the other one really isn't!

Your dog should be on a lead and under control. Your dog caused the issue not hers.

You are 100% the unreasonable one. If your dog isn’t trained not to approach other dogs and people and you can’t recall it when you see people approaching, it shouldn’t be off-lead in areas with other dogs and people. Leads and recall are there to use in combination to ensure the safety of all dogs. Hers was safely on a lead. Yours was the one running up to it without invitation.

An aggressive dog likely to bite should be muzzled end of.

An off lead dog should never approach an on lead dog without permission. End of.

Every dog that has attacked mine has been off lead.

I totally back @CuriousaboutSamphire on this @Viviansomnia. Our dog mentioned upthread is a rescue who hadn't been socialised at all before we got him when he was 4. What people wouldn't have seen every time they let their dog approach him while he was on lead is that although "the worst that happened to their dog was they got a growl" or the other response (that I still occasionally get and enrages me equally as much) of "don't worry about yours growling, mine has to learn/be told!" is that our dog then took huge steps backwards and was left even more terrified of being approached by dogs.

Lady, I agree. I always make eye contact and can pick up if there are concerns. I have asked if the dog is friendly when I didn’t get reassurance. As said, my dog approach is very slow and submissive never far from me there’s plenty of time for things to be said.

She’s very small so she’d be the one most likely hurt, I am always on alert mode but don’t systematically stop her because again, the vast majority of if dogs on lead are very friendly too and pleased to say hello to another dog.

An off lead dog should never approach an on lead dog without permission
But how do you define approach? If the dog is on a 10 metres lead? A dog could get in the 8 metres parameters, is it ok for the lead dog to bite that dog because it got within 8 metres of that dog?

I worked in veterinary for years and this always annoyed me.
If your dog doesn’t have excellent recall and isn’t able to keep away from other dogs, especially ones on a lead, then keep yours on a lead!
You have no idea what the situation is with that dog, it could be in recovery from surgery, nervous etc - they have been responsible by leading it, so should you.

@vivainsomnia

An off lead dog should never approach an on lead dog without permission But how do you define approach? If the dog is on a 10 metres lead? A dog could get in the 8 metres parameters, is it ok for the lead dog to bite that dog because it got within 8 metres of that dog?

I'm sure you can look up the definition of "approach" 😂

is it ok for the lead dog to bite....

Please point out where I said it was OK for a dog to bite.

YAB massively U.
Just because your dog is ‘well behaved’ off lead (which it isn’t - if it’s running up to others) doesn’t mean others are.
She’s correct in having her dog on a leas and isn’t held responsible for your dog running up to it.
Seriously.

I would never be able to make eye contact with the owner of a dog running up to mine as I would be too busy watching their dog in the hope it was not going to attack mine. Sometimes the smallest dogs are the ones which seem to launch at my dog.

Surely it is not unreasonable for owners to keep their off lead dogs away from mine if she is on a lead.

Both my dogs are really friendly. They have fantastic recalls. If we see a dog approaching on lead, we recall our dogs, their leads go on and we wait until the on lead dog has passed. While the on lead dog passes, our dogs are told firmly to ‘leave it’ and rewarded when they ignore the other dog. Again, our dogs are friendly but that other dog might not be and it’s not fair to the other dogs for ours to bound up to them and invade their personal space. Our dogs’ desire to play does not trump another dog’s need to feel safe.

If someone asks if it’s ok for our dogs to play with each other, we will say yes but always keep a careful watch on the interaction. We will also allow them to greet other dogs on lead if the other owner invites it but we are very aware of changing dog behaviour because dogs do not like meeting on leads. It’s not natural for them.

Also, just because a dog is off-lead, it doesn’t mean you should let your dog approach without checking with the owners. We will do off lead training with our dogs. We will find a quiet place and do some training. I’ve lost count of the number of times that someone has not only allowed their dogs to approach ours while they are working quietly away from the main path but follow their dog up and encourage their dog to play. Again, my dogs are extremely friendly but they are well trained. I will not throw a gundog dummy while there is another dog hanging around and my dogs will sit patiently waiting to do their training. Our dogs will get frustrated with the other dogs because they aren’t do their training.

On lead or off lead, it’s just rude to not check if the dog is ok to be approached. Sometimes your dog will approach another dog because they’ve gone selectively deaf, in which case you apologise to the other owner.

@vivainsomnia would you really know if someone was annoyed? Or just think you know? I’ve been annoyed with several other dog owners and yet they still continue to talk to me and encourage their dogs to play with mine. It’s because I’m too polite to tell the other owner that they’re being inconsiderate but maybe I should start then the inconsiderate owners can finally get the clue. Although all that happens is that they start an AIBU, sulk off when they don’t get the answer they want and probably continue with their behaviour. You’ve had several people tell you why it’s a problem for their dogs and still you maintain it’s fine to do.

mummabubs, as said, the only time it happened was on the street in narrow places and if passing another dog was so distressful for them, they should have crossed the road.

Quite frankly, I'm now really scared of off lead dogs when I'm walking mine even if he appears unconcerned.

would you really know if someone was annoyed? Or just think you know?
As said, so far, it’s never been an issue so I’d say that yes, I’m pretty good at telling.

If someone has a reactive dog and give me a big smile as m dog gently approach them, yet are fuming inside, they might want to reconsider their body language as it doesn’t make much sense.

@Neron

YABU. The Doberman doesn't need to be muzzled People like you, need to control your dog and stop letting it run up to other dogs.

Exactly this!

The law is that your dog needs to be under control, hers was by being on a lead - it was playing happily with its owner until yours ran over to it.
Yours was the one not under control as you couldn't recall it back (or didn't try by the sounds of it) - had anything happened, you would have been legally in the wrong.

I have two dogs that are friendly with other dogs but I would never let them run up to another dog without owners permission, especially one that is on a lead!
It doesn't matter that you and some other people usually let your dogs off lead at this grass bit - the point is this day there was someone there was a dog on the lead, the rest of you need to have your dogs under control if they're going to be off lead, regardless of where they are

Do pop back when you have a minute OP.