AIBU to question why they put "Died of old age" on Prince Philip's death certificate?

[SolarLightxoxo]

I mean everyone dies of something surely? It's not like you come to a certain age and you just drop dead.

@SolarLightxoxo

I mean everyone dies of something surely? It's not like you come to a certain age and you just drop dead.

You can't be serious?

Of course that's the case! Something in your body ceases to work. There may be a whole bunch of things declining which are age-related and which impact one another and a domino effect but something has failed for some reason and that is the cause/s of death. Not actually knowing the cause of death is what 'old age' as a cause really means.

We don't actually know the cause of aging - there are several theories, but we don't categorically know - so it seems odd to claim that a body cannot die simply because of old age.

@burritofan

How does this affect you, OP?

How does the OP asking affect you?

www.businessinsider.com/what-does-it-mean-to-die-of-old-age-2016-6

Oyvavoy that is kind of what I thought that it meant - with my Nan she had a couple of conditions she was managing and a couple of infections (she often got skin infections in her leg) and antibiotics werent working not because of the infection but because she just didnt have the strength to be able to continue on.

So its a few things put together

My great granny had this on hers (at 96). She also had Alzheimer’s but it wasn’t clear why she went when she did (i.e. what gave out). One day she was just ‘done’

I don't understand why an unknown cause of death is preferable to knowing the cause

The only way to know for sure is to autopsy everyone who dies. Is that what you want for yourself and your family? If it is, you're in a tiny minority. Most families find it very distressing when an autopsy is required.

There is age-related decline in organ function (that expected in line with age) and disease-specific deterioration in organ function (not in line with age).

They may result from different biological processes/different underlying mechanisms.

Individually taken, and isolated in time, at an organ level, the two may look indistinguishable, but context is key.

My grandfather had "old age" on his death certificate 5 years ago. It did need a second doctors opinion to be able to put it I think. But there was nothing wrong with him. He didn't take any medication or have any ailments. He was just in his nineties.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I don't understand why an unknown cause of death is preferable to knowing the cause

The only way to know for sure is to autopsy everyone who dies. Is that what you want for yourself and your family? If it is, you're in a tiny minority. Most families find it very distressing when an autopsy is required.

This. When my Dad died there was an autopsy as he'd only gone into hospital the night before and, although he was ill, his death was unexpected. The thought of it made me feel sick (and still does) and made an awful situation worse.

When we got the results of the autopsy it turns out he had cancer in most of his major organs. We didn't know he had cancer prior to that and, to be honest, I'd rather have not known. He'd had MS for 20 years and we believed it was a case that his body could no longer cope. Being told it was cancer made it worse.

I suspect heart failure

Both my grandmother, at 101, and my MIL, at 89, had ‘old age’ as the cause of death on their death certificates.
Of course, the actual cause of death for everybody is heart failure. Once your heart stops working you die. Neither of them died prematurely, nothing hastened their deaths, their bodies had run their natural course and stopped working. I know my MILs GP did speak to my DH at length about it, and said she would be happy to arrange a post mortem to ascertain a more specific cause if he so wished. He didn’t want that for his mum so was more than happy for old age to be the cause on her death certificate.

@AlecTrevelyan006

I suspect many Covid deaths among the very elderly were really just deaths of old age.

Exactly but as long as they had contracted covid in the last 30 days wasn’t it registered at a covid death? Terrible really as it increased the death toll.

@Oyvavoy

I work in this area and I think that's very strange that 'old age' would be acceptable as the cause of death on a death certificate.

Doctors are supposed to use the International Classification of Disease when filling out a death certificate. You can see it here:
icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en

People don't die of old age, that's not an acceptable cause of death. They will die of a direct cause (e.g. stroke) with underlying causes (e.g. hypertension and diabetes). This is recorded on the death certificate. A death certificate with old age recorded as a cause would be considered misreporting cause of death.

Rubbish! Everyone is eventually going to die. If you’re over 85 and still fit and healthy you’ve struck lucky and are beginning to defy the ageing process. My grandmother, at 101, may well have had some undiagnosed disease, possibly a cancer, but that would have been because the vast majority of people of that age do have some disease in their bodies, THAT is the ageing process.

@unwuthering

We don't actually know the cause of aging - there are several theories, but we don't categorically know - so it seems odd to claim that a body cannot die simply because of old age.

Surely the cause of ageing is the passing of time?

People don't die of old age, that's not an acceptable cause of death. They will die of a direct cause (e.g. stroke) with underlying causes (e.g. hypertension and diabetes). This is recorded on the death certificate. A death certificate with old age recorded as a cause would be considered misreporting cause of death.

I'm worried that you say you work in this area and don't understand that people die due to the ageing process!

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

I don't understand why an unknown cause of death is preferable to knowing the cause

The only way to know for sure is to autopsy everyone who dies. Is that what you want for yourself and your family? If it is, you're in a tiny minority. Most families find it very distressing when an autopsy is required.

I dont mean you need to do an autopsy on every person who dies. Obviously there are costs to that - emotional, financial etc.

But all things being equal, there's no benefit to not actually knowing what someone died of for what is a statistical record.

Surely the cause of ageing is the passing of time?

Well, if one is a cushion...

There are several major theories as to why we age and die, and the science keeps updating, is what I have understood from various books on the topic, eg: genome damage, epigenetic factors, telomere shortening, unfolded protein response, mitochondrial dysfunction, cellular senescence, and stem cell exhaustion. (I dunno!)

Look up garbage codes for cases of death and you'll understand.

There's a reason recording old age as a cause of death js discouraged. I hadn't even realised it was still allowed in the UK.

My great grandfathers death certificate says died of old age at 99

@unwuthering

Surely the cause of ageing is the passing of time?

Well, if one is a cushion...

There are several major theories as to why we age and die, and the science keeps updating, is what I have understood from various books on the topic, eg: genome damage, epigenetic factors, telomere shortening, unfolded protein response, mitochondrial dysfunction, cellular senescence, and stem cell exhaustion. (I dunno!)

And your point is? All the things you’ve listed are frequently as a result of the passing of time. Or are you trying to say that if they can all be stopped we’ll live forever?

@unwuthering

Surely the cause of ageing is the passing of time?

Well, if one is a cushion...

There are several major theories as to why we age and die, and the science keeps updating, is what I have understood from various books on the topic, eg: genome damage, epigenetic factors, telomere shortening, unfolded protein response, mitochondrial dysfunction, cellular senescence, and stem cell exhaustion. (I dunno!)

This is a really interesting post. I am seriously impressed by the depth of your knowledge. You just don't get this kind of quality stuff on Netmums

But all things being equal, there's no benefit to not actually knowing what someone died of for what is a statistical record.

So what do you think should happen? No one is intentionally falsifying death certificates. But, as I have explained above, without an autopsy, the cause of death is always an educated guess. Guessing a more specific diagnosis like MI (heart attack), instead of old age doesn't make the stats any more accurate.

Thanks, SolarLight! I am enjoying this thread.