AIBU to question why they put "Died of old age" on Prince Philip's death certificate?

[SolarLightxoxo]

I mean everyone dies of something surely? It's not like you come to a certain age and you just drop dead.

I thought that they stopped putting Old Age on as the cause of death after Dr Shipman, who was using this as a very convenient description to cover his tracks.

I know my DF died of Old Age, whatever the medical description.

My Nan died at 102 and that's what the doctor put for her but I'm pretty sure they had to change it as it wasn't acceptable.

On the assumption that OP is not related to the late Prince Phillip I have to wonder at her deep interest in his cause of death.

I'm a GP. We can put old age on a death certificate if:

1. Patient is over 80 years old
2. We have known them for a significant period of time (usually a couple of years) and have witnessed a general decline in their health and increase in frailty.
3. There is no other obvious cause of death.

Now, if each and every human had a full post mortem after death, would they be able to find something that caused it? Perhaps. But often not. As we age our organs just become less and less efficient until eventually they do just stop working.

MIL's said the same as she was 100.

Jagzorx

Thanks, that's particularly helpful. I am quite sure that my DF did die of old age, but he hadn't actually been attended by a doctor for a couple of years or so, and so the hospital didn't know him.

@User57327259

On the assumption that OP is not related to the late Prince Phillip I have to wonder at her deep interest in his cause of death.

@User57327259 What I have to wonder at is why you have appointed yourself as the thread police? One of the joys of Mumsnet is the ability to pose discussion topics. What's it got to do with you why anyone should find any particular topic interesting?

My mom is 92 and still alive 💕 however she is more prone to water infections and falls and she describes herself as wobbly a lot of time now. Cuts and bruises take months to heal now. It’s pretty obvious that her body isn’t working as well as it used to.

@Phillipa12

My mum died of old age. She needed a post mortem to ascertain death as she literally dropped down dead, his conclusion was old age as he could find nothing had gone medically wrong with her, she was 68.

I hope the 68 is a typo.

It's common on lots of elderly people's death certificates. Dh is a probate solicitor and sees it very regularly.

My 91y nana died last year and they wrote the same.
She had a number of things going on by that stage, including covid. Death certificate doesn't reference any of them.

My other nana, same age, also died last year but her death certificate states her actual cause of death as it was one specific thing which led to her death, rather than a general slow down/closure of everything.

I work in this area and I think that's very strange that 'old age' would be acceptable as the cause of death on a death certificate.

Doctors are supposed to use the International Classification of Disease when filling out a death certificate. You can see it here:
icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en

People don't die of old age, that's not an acceptable cause of death. They will die of a direct cause (e.g. stroke) with underlying causes (e.g. hypertension and diabetes). This is recorded on the death certificate. A death certificate with old age recorded as a cause would be considered misreporting cause of death.

I know some conspiracists will try to argue it's a cover up, I'm the case of Prince Phillip, but it really isn't. It's normal, at least here in England.

I don't know how old someone needs to be before it's acceptable.

@Oyvavoy

I work in this area and I think that's very strange that 'old age' would be acceptable as the cause of death on a death certificate.

Doctors are supposed to use the International Classification of Disease when filling out a death certificate. You can see it here:
icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en

People don't die of old age, that's not an acceptable cause of death. They will die of a direct cause (e.g. stroke) with underlying causes (e.g. hypertension and diabetes). This is recorded on the death certificate. A death certificate with old age recorded as a cause would be considered misreporting cause of death.

@Oyvavoy Thank you for this post. That is very interesting.

And yet is happens often Oyvavoy.
Dh sees death certificates most days and many say the same.

It's not like you come to a certain age and you just drop dead.

Yes you can. As you body ages your heart can beat more slowly, so that it has difficulties pumping enough blood to your vital organs.

Actually, i stand corrected. Old age does appear in there if other things can be excluded.

So old age is fine!

I work in pensions and see a fair few death certificates. We do get people who died of old age every now and then. I have a little smile when we do as it sounds like a peaceful way to go.

I thought they usually put old age and then the conditions secondary. So old age, heart failure (or whatever it would be)

When my mum died, the dr signing the cert asked the nurse what to write. She suggested old age, he dismissed that as it wasn’t a thing. He put something else (which it wasn’t) and there was almost a call for an autopsy. Took many phone calls to stop it. The registrar couldn’t understand but as it was a standard reason.
Personally I think it adds dignity to the certificate-almost recognition for a life lived well.

At what age would a sudden unexpected death not require a post mortem? If a 95 year old drops down dead or dies in their sleep would the death be put down to old age or does there have to be an autopsy?
Is there still that rule that a post mortem has to be carried out if the person has not been seen by a doctor within a certain number of days before their death?

My 94 year old grandad officially died of cardiac arrest. But I would describe him as dying of old age. He was 94 after all, we all die eventually.

@Oyvavoy

I work in this area and I think that's very strange that 'old age' would be acceptable as the cause of death on a death certificate.

Doctors are supposed to use the International Classification of Disease when filling out a death certificate. You can see it here:
icd.who.int/browse11/l-m/en

People don't die of old age, that's not an acceptable cause of death. They will die of a direct cause (e.g. stroke) with underlying causes (e.g. hypertension and diabetes). This is recorded on the death certificate. A death certificate with old age recorded as a cause would be considered misreporting cause of death.

Could R54 - Age related physical debility be used as the ICD10 code?

The death cert would have stated cause of death “frailty of old age”. And of course that’s what he died of, he was nearly 100 years old! Everything wears out eventually and we don’t live forever!

DM had this on her death cert aged 95.
I like it. It feels like a dignified acknowledgment of her long life.

I am wondering if it is just not cost effective or beneficial to do autopsies for every death. Obviously most deaths are not suspicious, so it makes sense not to do them routinely for very elderly people as death is not an unusual event for this age group.