AIBU to question why they put "Died of old age" on Prince Philip's death certificate?

[SolarLightxoxo]

I mean everyone dies of something surely? It's not like you come to a certain age and you just drop dead.

@UpTheJunktion

YABU.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow

People don't die of old age, that's not an acceptable cause of death. They will die of a direct cause (e.g. stroke) with underlying causes (e.g. hypertension and diabetes). This is recorded on the death certificate. A death certificate with old age recorded as a cause would be considered misreporting cause of death

That is not true. GPs are discouraged from putting old age as the main cause of death (I am a GP), but it is not misreporting. In this case, I am sure the cause was discussed with the local coroner, and this wording was agreed as appropriate.

Only about 50% of death certificates are accurate anyway. When patients have autopsies (a small minority of total deaths), the doctors' presumed cause of death turns out to be wrong half the time. I don't mean wrong in the sense that doctor has put 'stroke' and the autopsy shows the patient was actually murdered with an ice-pick... But if, say, a patient with known cardiovascular disease and angina is found dead in bed, the doctor might put 'myocardial infarction' (heart attack) on the death certificate (after discussion with the coroner if the death was unexpected or if the doctor had not seen the patient recently) but the real cause might be a stroke - also caused by the cardiovascular disease. Unless we autopsy everyone, a cause of death will always be a 'best guess' in most cases.

Yes, it was my mistake. I hadn't realised it was in the ICD, but then again I guess there are some strange codes in the ICD.

I'd still say it is one of those garbage codes - it's not very helpful for statistical purposes and understanding causes of death. People die for a reason, it might not be immediately apparent and there may be a few interacting reasons but old age does not kill you. No one says 'Phew, I survived a bout of old age there' .

@Elsiebear90

I’m a HCP, you don’t die of old age, you die because of health problems which occur because you are old, some of which might not have even been diagnosed, but OP is right, it’s not like you you hit a magic number of age and this causes your body to just stop working, like you have a preset expiry date. There is always a cause of death, like cardiac arrest for example, even if we don’t know what it is. I’ve seen many death certificates and never seen old age as a cause of death, so this is quite unusual, I’d like to actually see the death certificate and what was written.

I used to work in ICU. Old age was featured on several death certificates, often as a contributory cause of death, i.e. they wouldn't have died if they weren't also old.

Most people would fare better with any disease process if they are young. Most people would be more likely to die if they are older.

Old age is a cause of death. It's a cause of demise. That doesn't mean that it is the only cause of death. Death certs have several parts.

This is an interesting article on how garbage codes could be redistributed:
www.healthdata.org/acting-data/determining-causes-death-how-we-reclassify-miscoded-deaths

Well he had just had the Pfizer vaccine. Wasn’t there an increase in care home deaths earlier this year?

Personally I think that dropping dead is the perfect way to go, irrespective of what age.

When it’s my time to go I’d far rather just drop dead than suffer through some long, possibly degenerative illness.

I had a cardiac arrest two years ago and if I’d not been in the hospital it would literally have been a case of just dropping dead.

We’re all going to die, so when it’s my turn, that’s how I want to go.

That's what was put on my Grandads death certificate. No underlying issues, he was 93 and his body stopped working.

Some very old people people do die like this, usually in their sleep combination of factors.

I’ve seen many death certificates and never seen old age as a cause of death, so this is quite unusual, I’d like to actually see the death certificate and what was written

My father's said exactly what I said: Cause of death (a) Parkinsons (b) frailty of old age.

In Hampshire within the last five years.

Yes, it was my mistake. I hadn't realised it was in the ICD, but then again I guess there are some strange codes in the ICD. I'd still say it is one of those garbage codes - it's not very helpful for statistical purposes and understanding causes of death. People die for a reason, it might not be immediately apparent and there may be a few interacting reasons but old age does not kill you. No one says 'Phew, I survived a bout of old age there'

I think you can argue it either way but, personally, I feel it introduces more inaccuracy in the data if doctors are forced to guess a cause (in expected deaths), rather than being allowed to put old age.

Old age isn't a discrete diagnosis, but it is a cause of death. Even on autopsy, pathologists don't always find a definite single cause such as MI. People do die of old age.

@poppycat10 frailty of old age is not the same as old age, your grandad also had Parkinson’s as his primary cause of death. I should have clarified that I’ve never seen the only cause of death being “old age”. Frailty of old age is not the same as old age, it means the person had multiple long term health conditions and a decline in physical fitness due to their age, you can be old without being frail and vice versa.

@SolarLightxoxo

I am wondering if it is just not cost effective or beneficial to do autopsies for every death. Obviously most deaths are not suspicious, so it makes sense not to do them routinely for very elderly people as death is not an unusual event for this age group.

Of course they don't do this!! There is no conspiracy to see here, move on

It is very clear, and only needs very basic googling skills to find results like this, that it is perfectly acceptable to put old age as a cause of death.

gpnotebook.com/en-gb/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20120623141725030327

Only on MN are all humans immortal.

@RickiTarr

Surely it’s just a case that the body eventually loses its ability to heal and regenerate?

68 isn't old?

My mum dropped dead aged 65 and it was registered as natural causes.

(sorry this isn't a pissing competition about death, I don't mean to be insensitive)

Sorry I meant to quote @Phillipa12

@SolarLightxoxo I'm suprieed they gave your auntie a postmortem when they knew she had cancer. My mother died of cancer last week and I'd have thought they were crazy to do that, cause of death will obvious. It seems very unnecessarily invasive.

I thought we were talking about Prince Philip? He was 99.

@Crunchymum

Sorry I meant to quote *@Phillipa12*

Ah that’s why I’m confused!

@SolarLightxoxo

I mean everyone dies of something surely? It's not like you come to a certain age and you just drop dead.

The guidance is:

Old age, ‘senility’ or ‘frailty of old age’ should only be given as the sole cause of death in very limited circumstances. These are that:

• You have personally cared for the deceased over a long period (years, or many months)

• You have observed a gradual decline in your patient's general health and functioning

• You are not aware of any identifiable disease or injury that contributed to the death

• You are certain that there is no reason that the death should be reported to the coroner

My mother had about 5 things on her death certificate including frailty & kidney failure (which was what she actually died of), whereas my father had one (I think it was chest infection), which was actually what killed him but he was very frail & old too.

Erm because he died of old age 🤷🏻‍♀️

Up here we just say they were ‘done’ or were failing.

And aye, my granda was just done.

My DH’s Grandad died at age 96 (before I met him). My MIL apparently couldn’t accept it when the cause of death was put down as ‘old age’, as she hadn’t accepted previously that he was deteriorating. Despite the fact that he’d had to move in with her and my FIL two years previously as he could no longer live independently and had been deteriorating for some time.

I think it shows that a death from ‘old age’ is often unexpected, as there’s no single illness that has led to the death.

I don’t recall hearing on the news what the actual cause of Prince Philip’s death was or what was written on his death certificate? Only that he was treated in hospital for a heart condition; I just assumed that this was his cause of death.

My grandpa died on his sleep aged 94 and his first cause of death was frailty of old age. The second was whatever the medical term for heart failure is.

He didn’t have an autopsy I think I the doctor that certified said in the absence of any other obvious cause such as an injury, this was pretty much the likely cause. I don’t recall an autopsy being mooted.

If there’s any way to die I’m guessing that’s the one you’d choose (cheery topic!) my grandmothers both died of strokes and it makes me sad to think maybe they knew they were about to die