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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that a Rape Crisis centre should not have a transwoman CEO?

999 replies

ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 16:18

Mridhul Wadhwa has just been appointed CEO of Edinburgh Rape Crisis. The job was advertised as for women only. Mridhul is a transwoman (born male) without a Gender Recognition Certificate.

AIBU to think that women survivors of rape and sexual violence should be able to have a female only space?

theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2021/05/new-boss-for-edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/05/2021 19:08

All the trans or gender neutral people I know have no underlying agenda to remove any spaces.

Same. Doesn't mean they don't exist though. Means I take care not to be friends with people who would campaign against specialised rape crisis services.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 03/05/2021 19:09

All the trans or gender neutral people I know have no underlying agenda to remove any spaces.

If biologically male people can access a space that was traditionally reserved for biologically female people, then that space is no longer single sex.

So the space in itself may still exist but it no longer serves female people who wanted/needed a single sex space. That space has been removed.

There is most definitely an agenda among trans rights activists to remove single sex spaces (Stonewall are quite open about campaigning for it, for example), and if any of your trans friends are biologically male people who want to access women only spaces, then they are part of it.
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Helleofabore · 03/05/2021 19:09

Sorry Morgan.

I deleted the first part of my post. My fingers are a bit numb at the moment.

I know there are many trans people who do not agree with MWs approach. But do look at their history.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 03/05/2021 19:10

One obvious solution is that it was a powerful political position to be taken, from which progress could be made on the political aim of removing boundaries from crucial female only services.

This is very observant. I think we should be very wary about sleepwalking into a future in which there are zero safe spaces from male born people. This is not a reaction to trans people - this is knowing a) that male pattern violence and abuse exists b) coercive control exists via which manipulative people can encourage others to behave in a certain way and c) nobody should think that safeguarding being weakened is a good thing. It wasn't strong enough in the first place ffs. I resent and hugely regret that we are being led down a path - in the name of progress - on which there are repeated and relentless attempts to erase women's boundaries.

LunaMuffinTop · 03/05/2021 19:11

I think she’s a brilliant choice for CEO she has done a lot of work with rape victims and an advocate for the rights of trans women, black minority ethnic women and if you read the article

Established in 1978, ERCC is the largest rape crisis centre in Scotland, providing therapeutic and emotional support, information and advocacy for women, non-binary people, members of the trans community and young people aged 12 and over in Edinburgh, East and Midlothian who have experienced sexual violence. ERCC also works in schools and with young people across Edinburgh and the Lothians to raise awareness of sexual violence and deliver prevention workshops

They are branching out what services they offer and to who and I can think of no one better to help trans people than a tram gender person who knows what they are going through.

YABU.

ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 19:11

Tram gender? That's out there, even for Edinburgh.

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 03/05/2021 19:13

Sorry, Luna, couldn't resist the pun.

This role specifically required a woman, though. Not a transwomen.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/05/2021 19:15

I think she’s a brilliant choice for CEO she has done a lot of work with rape victims and an advocate for the rights of trans women, black minority ethnic women and if you read the article

RTFT.

FelicityBeedle · 03/05/2021 19:16

She’s a woman, just because she hasn’t jumped through all the legal hoops yet. Also men can be raped too so I’m not sure it’s appropriate to ask for women only

FelicityBeedle · 03/05/2021 19:17

Oh and she’s a well known for her advocacy in this field, what is this gender critical feminism obsession with what is in someone’s knickers

CirclesWithinCircles · 03/05/2021 19:19

@LunaMuffinTop

I think she’s a brilliant choice for CEO she has done a lot of work with rape victims and an advocate for the rights of trans women, black minority ethnic women and if you read the article

Established in 1978, ERCC is the largest rape crisis centre in Scotland, providing therapeutic and emotional support, information and advocacy for women, non-binary people, members of the trans community and young people aged 12 and over in Edinburgh, East and Midlothian who have experienced sexual violence. ERCC also works in schools and with young people across Edinburgh and the Lothians to raise awareness of sexual violence and deliver prevention workshops

They are branching out what services they offer and to who and I can think of no one better to help trans people than a tram gender person who knows what they are going through.

YABU.

It was her job.

She does seem to be followed around by controversy:

www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-rape-crisis-centre-forced-17855231

And the You Tube clip. Amazing that nothing was done about her being untruthful in a previous job application. If someone lied about their paper qualifications or at least misrepresented them, that would potentially be a crime.

What about women who have been raped? Not transwomen, but women?

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 03/05/2021 19:20

Felicity

Please remember that we are talking about a rape crisis centre. Saying "what is this gender critical feminism obsession with what is in someone’s knickers" sounds incredibly crass.

EXTRACT from Karen Ingala Smith, professional in the violence against women sector

It’s not unusual for women who’ve been subjected to men’s violence to develop a trauma response. These sometimes develop after a single incident of violence, particularly with regards to sexual violence, though sometimes it can develop after years or months of living in fear, walking on egg-shells, recognising that tone of voice, that look in the eyes, that sigh, that pause, that silence, that change in his breathing. Some women have lived this, with a succession of perpetrators starting from their dad – who may have been physically, sexually or emotionally violent, abusive and controlling or a mixture of them all – all their lives.

Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) can develop in response to trauma that may have occurred recently or in the distant past. Those who have experienced sexual trauma, especially whilst young are at greater risk, with victims of multiple forms of childhood abuse and neglect most at risk of lifetime trauma[i]Women victim-survivors of child sexual abuse are at least twice as likely to experience adult sexual victimisation[ii]. 51% of adults who were abused as children experienced domestic abuse in later life and approximately one in six adults who were abused as a child had been subjected to domestic violence and abuse in the previous year[iii].

[...]

After trauma, the brain can be triggered by something that would barely register for someone else, interpreting something that for many people would be unthreatening as a serious threat or danger, for example the presence of a man, particularly where not expected.

PTSD/trauma responses happen in a part of the brain called the amygdala. The amygdala detects a threat or perceived threat and can activate a “fight or flight” response. This releases adrenaline, norepinephrine, and glucose into the body, and if the threat continues, cortisol. A part of the prefrontal cortex (an area in the front of the brain that processes emotions and behavioural reactions) assesses the threat and can either calm or reinforce the fight or flight response. People suffering trauma/PTSD have a hyper reactive amygdala and a less effective calming prefrontal cortex reaction. The brain becomes overwhelmed by the trauma (pre-frontal cortex shutdown) leading to disorientation and confusion as the higher brain functions of reasoning and language are disrupted. Thinking and reasoning can be drowned out by feeling and being. Prolonged stress can lead to permanent change in the prefrontal cortex.

A trauma-informed safe space creates space for action and recovery from violence and abuse and places the woman victim-survivor in control and in the centre. The trauma response described earlier is the antithesis of a space for action and recovery, so a trauma informed approach is based on understanding the physical, social, and emotional impact of trauma caused by experiencing violence and abuse. A trauma-informed service for women understands the importance of creating an environment – physical and relational – that feels safe to victims-survivors in all the ways I’ve just mentioned. For many women this means excluding men from their recovery space, and yes, this includes those who don’t identify as men. Their behaviour, the likelihood that they themselves may be abusive, is not relevant. If it is not women-only, it is not trauma informed for women who have been subjected to men’s violence.

We know that at least 80% of males who hold a gender recognition certificate retain their penis, but anyway, in almost every case, we don’t need to know what’s in their pants to know they are a man. Women experiencing trauma after violence and abuse will, like most of us – almost always instantly read someone who might be the most kind and gentle trans identified male in the world – as male; and they may experience a debilitating trauma response as a result. It’s not their fault, it’s not a choice and it’s not something they can be educated out of. It’s not hate. It’s not bigotry. It’s not transphobia. It is an impact of abuse and they need space, support and sometimes therapy – not increased confrontation with a trauma inducing trigger; not nowhere to go that offers a woman-only space.

Continues here:
kareningalasmith.com/2020/07/08/trauma-informed-services-for-women-subjected-to-mens-violence-must-be-single-sex-services/amp/

CirclesWithinCircles · 03/05/2021 19:20

@FelicityBeedle

She’s a woman, just because she hasn’t jumped through all the legal hoops yet. Also men can be raped too so I’m not sure it’s appropriate to ask for women only
You obviously don't have a clue how the equality legislation works - go and educate yourself.
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 03/05/2021 19:21

Have have we got to the point now where it seems I couldn't be guaranteed a female counsellor even if I specifically requested one. sad

There were many politicians in Scotland recently who wanted to stop female rape victims being able to request a female medical examiner in the aftermath of their rape.

The SNP was among many arguing that the wording of the bill should be in reference to the “gender” of the examiner rather than the sex, which would have meant that a woman could have been faced with a male person who identified as a woman to perform the examination on her even if she’d specifically requested a woman.

Fortunately the wonderful MSP Johann Lamont argued passionately for the wording on the bill to reference the sex of the examiner, not the “gender”, and the government caved.

The Scottish Greens and (I think) the LibDems still voted against the amendment though. So they wanted to force women to accept potentially being examined by a biologically male person no matter what they requested.

And with Wadhwa now in charge of ERCC, I think it’s safe to say women who’ve been raped will no longer be able to ask for or have it guaranteed that their counsellor, or those in support groups with them, will actually be female.

Scotland is so fucked up on this.

lifeturnsonadime · 03/05/2021 19:21

Given that rape can only be committed by a person with a penis what is in a persons knickers is particularly relevant to this situation Felicity.

Helleofabore · 03/05/2021 19:22

@FelicityBeedle

Oh and she’s a well known for her advocacy in this field, what is this gender critical feminism obsession with what is in someone’s knickers
And yet you are the only one bringing up genitals!!

It does seem to be a trope that activists who seem to love to berate women discussing the rights of females... women haven’t mentioned it but YOU have.

thepuredrop · 03/05/2021 19:22

@LunaMuffinTop

I think she’s a brilliant choice for CEO she has done a lot of work with rape victims and an advocate for the rights of trans women, black minority ethnic women and if you read the article

Established in 1978, ERCC is the largest rape crisis centre in Scotland, providing therapeutic and emotional support, information and advocacy for women, non-binary people, members of the trans community and young people aged 12 and over in Edinburgh, East and Midlothian who have experienced sexual violence. ERCC also works in schools and with young people across Edinburgh and the Lothians to raise awareness of sexual violence and deliver prevention workshops

They are branching out what services they offer and to who and I can think of no one better to help trans people than a tram gender person who knows what they are going through.

YABU.

Why does TWAW work when a TW takes a woman-only role, but not when any woman could represent a TW?
OverTheRainbow88 · 03/05/2021 19:24

Would people feel the same if it were an advert for a female PE teacher?

goldielockdown2 · 03/05/2021 19:25

They should be CEO of a rape crisis centre for transpeople (or men, if men would feel comfortable with it)
I don't find this acceptable. No actually it's fucking outrageous. I think this because I care about the women who find themselves accessing rape crisis centres for women and that is all.

BetterKateThanNever · 03/05/2021 19:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BlitheringBlathers · 03/05/2021 19:27

@LondonStone

This is why everyone thinks Mumsnet is shit and transphobic. I really like it here generally but I’d be embarrassed to mention it in real life.
What is shit and transphobic about this post, genuinely? Nobody used to have an issue with female only spaces for traumatised/vulnerable women, so what has changed?
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 03/05/2021 19:27

Please remember that we are talking about a rape crisis centre. Saying "what is this gender critical feminism obsession with what is in someone’s knickers" sounds incredibly crass.

Yes, really.

MaxNormal · 03/05/2021 19:29

What a silly comment. Do some research before commenting on such a sensitive topic

Could you clarify? The legal definition of rape involves a penis, what further research is needed?

lifeturnsonadime · 03/05/2021 19:29

What a silly comment. Do some research before commenting on such a sensitive topic

Which country are you from? . Quite literally rape can only be performed by a person with a penis in this country. Any other crime would be sexual assault not rape.

But don't let facts get in your way.

OldLang · 03/05/2021 19:30

I can think of no one better to help trans people than a tram gender person who knows what they are going through.

So given that the vast majority of rape victims are women, surely it follows that the person there to help them should be one too? Not to say that men and trans people who've been raped shouldn't have access to support of course, they just shouldn't co-opt services designed for females as they've very different needs.

I also assume you'd agree that humans who aren't women should stop trying to gaslight us into changing the definition of what a woman is? Great.