To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

[Lowef]

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

doesn't matter if they're a man or woman!

So, If we lived in a society where one income was sufficient to live a comfortable life do you you think equal numbers of men and women would choose to stay at home??

Because that absolutely would not happen.

What's the point of girls receiving an education instead of simply learning to cook, bake, sew world book day costumes, clean and plant vegetables, drive others around? Perhaps play the piano, cards and sing as well?

I am very lucky to be a SAHM but DH and I do make sacrifices so that we can afford that luxury. We don’t ever go on holiday or have a very fancy house in an expensive area, our car’s about 12 years old, we don’t have the latest phones etc. We are very fortunate, I realise lots of families couldn’t afford to have a SAHP regardless of how much they cut back, but most of our friends on two salaries have houses worth twice as much as ours, have a new car each, go on multiple foreign holidays etc etc. I think a lot more people could afford to have a SAHP but ultimately don’t prioritise it (as is their prerogative) but I agree with PP that the role is not valued at all by society.

Small sample size so appreciate not representative of broader set ups however keen to share my own situation and that of our parents.

My siblings and I grew up in the late 70s/80s and our parents both worked in professional roles. I recall lots of baking etc with my mum, playing as a family, my dad doing lots of activities outside with us in the evenings and weekends. We had a childminder watch us after school and don’t really remember them, my overriding memories are playing with my parents. My parents are now retired, with good pensions and have lots of time for their grandchildren plus able to live mortgage free with income to enjoy themselves.
My husband grew up with a mother who didn’t work as was the norm in the area he lived. His dad died when he was under ten and the family really struggled to survive- they were council housed thank goodness but he and his siblings recall the struggle of his mum desperately trying to find money to pay the bills. She was borrowing from family and friends mostly whilst trying to find small ways to make money- cleaning etc. she ended up remarrying a small business owner when my partner was a teenager and again stopped working. She divorced ten years ago and has zero private pension, no property etc (they rented and second husband was by no means wealthy so no assets to split) and my husband and his two siblings are having to give her money every month to stay in her rental property (she is still not quite old enough for state pension). My partner doesn’t recall fond memories of home baking, he is pretty bitter that he is supporting his mum so much and cannot fathom why she didn’t ever try and work.
We have kids ourselves and I sincerely hope for more for them than just being a parent and really hope we are not in a position to rely on them funding us in old age. Interestingly my partner is currently a sahp as I am the main breadwinner. I took time off when they were tiny (maternity leave for fist six months as was breastfeeding) but we opted for shared parental leave and now he has quit his job for the time being so we can spend a little more time with them whilst tiny. However he has every intent on returning to the workforce in a year or two and is using the time to also study to enhance his career opportunities (kids go to daycare 3 hours a day to accommodate this).
Appreciate we are very fortunate to be able to be in this position and I credit my parents providing me with that stable upbringing and instilling in me that I should/could work which is why I have a very good career now and we can afford to have one income for a short period. However despite our different upbringings, both my partner and I see the huge value of working, not just so we can afford our home now but for the longer term (pension, financial security and stability) reasons.

@Chickencrossing

What's the point of girls receiving an education instead of simply learning to cook, bake, sew world book day costumes, clean and plant vegetables, drive others around? Perhaps play the piano, cards and sing as well?

Because even SAHMs will also work and have careers at some time in their lives. Children aren't small forever and luckily there is many many years before retirement to be able to do both.

Yes not easy. 4 days ideal. Hated FT chasing tails nothing done. Doing less hours now. We both work you do get used to 2 incomes

It’s strange you think it’s ‘sad’.

Your fond memories of idyllic baking with your mother might be remembered by her as a hideous waste of her talents and qualifications in a patriarchal society that viewed women’s careers are weirdly optional once they have a child. I, for one, am glad those days are gone.

Interested to hear from any economists about what has caused this? It’s an interesting phenomenon.

My view is that it’s probably globalisation- reducing the cost of labour more than the cost of goods. Most firms are global now and don’t need to hire U.K. staff in the same way that they once did.

So certainly it’s been a good thing in that people in China are a lot richer now, even if the average family here is poorer.

@SnackSizeRaisin is talking a lot of sense.
She hasn't said "things were better back in the day" and she hasn't said "we should go back to those days", she is quite rightly pointing out things are / were different during different decades. Which is true.

There are also far too many generalisations on this thread. There are SO many different circumstances both now in 2021, and also in our parents and grandparents and great grandparents generations.

Was having this exact same conversation with my friends earlier - my summary was although feminism has pushed equality forwards, there's now the expectation that one person (the woman) can fulfil multiple roles - ft work/career, clean house, bear and raise children, clean house, maintain svelte phisique, support child's learning and development.
It's impossible and actually, biologically, I feel my skills are towards making, and rearing a child.
I'd love to have the opportunity to do this full time. The societal expectations don't make it possible not does the cost of living.

@Lowef

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

It does sound lovely but SAHM was never a thing for a lot of families, I was born in the 70s and my mother went back to work when I started infant school and so did all my friends mothers. Always been that way for a lot of people.

I didn't like my mother being a stay at home mum, would have much preferred her to have a job and interests outside the home. We'd have also been better off financially (not that we really went without).

Agree that life (mainly property) is stupidly expensive and not many people can afford to be a SAHP even if they wanted to. We can only manage it as we moved to a cheaper part of the country where family are, and then had unexpected financial help that means we have a small mortgage.

I honestly don’t remember the afternoons after school with my mum - other than her making dinner and carting us kids around to ballet and brownies etc. My mum didn’t go to work until I had left home!

I get what you’re saying and I don’t necessarily disagree, but we manage on one salary because we live in a place where housing is cheap. If I’d moved back to London when I graduated, I would probably be earning more but not significantly enough to allow us the lifestyle we have now.

Also, I did originally think I wanted to be a SAHM when I was pregnant. The reality is though, I need a job. I was bored to tears at home. I have friends who love it though, different strokes for different folks innit.

Yes it's a real tragedy. My Mum stayed home because she had a wealthy husband and our childhood was amazing because of it. Likewise I stayed home but I was broke and a single parent but those years with my DD were the happiest of my life and my DD benefited so much.

Tragedy is a bit dramatic don’t you think?

I don’t actually know that many families where both parents are working full time. None of my children’s school friends have full time working parents. They range from sahm s to working 4 days. With maybe three days being average. I work 2.5 days which for me is perfect. I get a break from my children but still have lots of time to do fun things with them. I enjoy my job too.

@SnackSizeRaisin

Society does not value the stay at home parent.

That's because a stay at home parent is generally not contributing to society. It's only of value to their own family. Nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent, but it's of no value to society in general

Snacksizeraisin I respectfully disagree. When I was a SAHP I contributed more to society than I do now as a working parent (as I don't have any time). I helped in many voluntary roles - church, preschool, food bank, hospital visiting. I also had more time to get to know neighbours. SAHP 's contribute alot to society. Contribution is not always economic.

I agree the UK is too bloody expensive. Main issue is house prices - we need to build more houses, for 600 years up until Ww2 the cost of a house was x3 average salary, now look at it.

Also I agree we all work too hard, it’s not necessary - our productivity as a nation is pretty crap compared to France or Denmark where people don’t work such long hours

Also I think we are all anxious due to the collapse of social support, so we overwork, which you don’t see in say France or Denmark.

I don’t think the answer is for one parent to stay at home, because that has such huge downsides - namely woman being financially shafted, having no autonomy, little influence, and no choice - but I do think we all need to work less.

[quote BackforGood]@SnackSizeRaisin is talking a lot of sense.
She hasn't said "things were better back in the day" and she hasn't said "we should go back to those days", she is quite rightly pointing out things are / were different during different decades. Which is true.

There are also far too many generalisations on this thread. There are SO many different circumstances both now in 2021, and also in our parents and grandparents and great grandparents generations.[/quote]
That poster said that people could afford to stop working if they gave up luxuries like showers and heating, while refusing to acknowledge that the discrepancy between house prices and wages is actually the reason so many people live in poverty in 2021. I had to provide 175 years of evidence to prove them wrong - which they haven’t acknowledged.

Tbh I don't want to be a sahm. It sounds v boring to me. See the posts on MN of women walking their partners for money? No thanks. I like to be master of my own destiny . It's fine when you have preschool children but after that it must be boring. I've been wfh for the past year do I'm here when the children get home from school.

Sorry not walking - asking!

I really hope your 'DP' is paying into a pension for you equivalent to his, has covered you in his will, paid into a savings for you, etc etc because with unmarried couples where one person gives up their financial independence to their partner, poverty is just a split away.
This.

Personally I'm incredibly relieved that I was born at a time when women can and are expected to work. I would go mad as a SAHM, the thought of it makes me want to scream. Maternity leave gave me enough of a taste to know that it's my idea of hell. I'm not a high flyer or especially well paid, but I enjoy working and earning my own money, and find housekeeping and many aspects of childcare unutterably dull.

My mum stayed at home until I was 12, and while she was happy to I think it was a huge waste of her intelligence.

I don't have particularly fond memories of my mum being a SAHM (she worked school hours once I started school). I think she did it for her own convenience more than for her children, she's now very resentful of the fact she gave up her career and my dad now earns a lot of money (now divorced).

Yes she baked me cakes but I was also quite lonely as a child and think it would have been nice for me to go to holidays clubs and meet other people, not to mention we'd have had more money.

I'm sure there's pros and cons for each but I definitely don't think staying home is automatically best.

My oldest in particular absolutely loves after school club, I've just gone back to work after a year of maternity and he kept asking when he could go back.