To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

[Lowef]

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

In winter, do they go in to a dark, empty house?

I think Nest/Hive has solved this one

@mermaidsariel

I was at SAHM for quite a while. I was bored, lonely and bored a lot of the time. When I went back to work I was much happier. It depends on the person. The person who isn’t working is dependent on the other financially and it’s hard to have a sense of identity I think. That can easily lead to depression.

I agree

In winter, do they go in to a dark, empty house?

They shovel their way through the snow heaps, tape together a few twigs to make a makeshift jemmy, and set a fire going while they finish their Mam's proggy mat. It's better in spring though, when the water pump isn't frozen.

for those of you where you both work FT and are happy with this, don't you feel frazzled, aren't you knackered?! I dont have the energy or the mindset to be playing/ baking or whatever with the kids or even doing anything for myself even. I cant cram everything into a weekend - i just need to chill out and switch off too.

I find a day at home with both kids far more knackering. I find work energising, it's home life that sucks my energy. Work is something I do for me. I find childcare extremely tiring and hardwork.

Yes, definitely.

@Barbie222

In winter, do they go in to a dark, empty house?

They shovel their way through the snow heaps, tape together a few twigs to make a makeshift jemmy, and set a fire going while they finish their Mam's proggy mat. It's better in spring though, when the water pump isn't frozen.

🤣

@NamechangeApril21

for those of you where you both work FT and are happy with this, don't you feel frazzled, aren't you knackered?! I dont have the energy or the mindset to be playing/ baking or whatever with the kids or even doing anything for myself even. I cant cram everything into a weekend - i just need to chill out and switch off too.

I find a day at home with both kids far more knackering. I find work energising, it's home life that sucks my energy. Work is something I do for me. I find childcare extremely tiring and hardwork.

Yes, definitely.

It depends what you do. I'm an infant teacher and it can feel like this. That's because my quota for young children, and patience with them, runs low at the end of the day. In a different occupation (which I used to have, and which I'm returning to) it's a welcome break.

I am a lone parent, have a decent house and raise my kids fine having given my ex 55% to go away. So I’ve bought this house twice pretty much and managed it. Kids are older now but we cope fine. Their dad doesn’t see them at all. I am grateful I kept working so we can survive.

We are in no way deprived, in fact pretty comfortable. I do worry about house prices for the next generation. True.

I’d say the main issue about working and parenting is not whether you work at all but the samurai-type devotion and loyalty expected in some jobs to get to the top. 12hr shifts, always available, long commutes, then it’s no wonder few mothers get to the top (and it is always the mother’s who make sacrifices in terms of hours etc). This is what needs addressing. People should be valued in the workplace for quality, not just quantity and MEN should be stepping up and doing their share of parenting instead of leaving it to women.

@Nodal

My kids have never come back to an empty home and I wouldn't want them to. We picked them up at 4 or 6 when they were at primary school (depending on shifts) from after school activities (chess, cricket, forest schools, music lessons, football etc etc) and when at secondary school we'd either beat them back home (they choose to go to after school sports or library til 5.30 to get homework out of the way) or meet them on the train on the way home for a lift. More recently I work full time from home so would either be in the house anyway or out in town in meetings and would again sync up with them on the way home for a lift. The teenagers would love to be in the house alone (to eat everything) but sadly for them, it never happens.

The world of work has changed a lot since even the 90s and I don't recognise the very back and white ideas about working parents that are being presented here. Things are generally a lot more flexible for professionals, and for shift workers etc, after school care is a) available and reasonably priced b) quite good

Exactly. People seem to have a very outdated view of the workplace. Even pre covid i WFH twice a week and DH once a week so we can drop off and pick up from school without using out of school care on those days ( although DS chooses to stay at school one of those days for chess club) On the days we do use out of school care we pick him up no later than 5.

Post covid I think we'll both wfh more frequently which gives us even more flexibility.

@barbie222 yes, thats true too. I don't know where I'd find my strength to deal with children all day at work and then at home. For me, my work was my break mentally from the kids at home. I'm not a naturally maternal person, as much as love my kids obviously.

@TheLastLotus More perhaps that a greater proportion of the population had the choice. Likely region-specific - particularly SE.
Must be a useful study somewhere.

Many professions simply don’t have the flexibility - you can request (and sometimes get) flexible working, however that doesn’t mean you don’t need to still do full-time, in your own time.
Judging any situation based on personal anecdote is not a panacea for the whole subject.

I haven’t RTT but for me personally I can’t think of anything worse than teaching my daughter that a good life for her would be staying at home cleaning and baking. I mean Jesus Christ. What a fucking boring existence.

My mother worked. I let myself into the house at an early age. I learned how to get myself up and home on a night. Great life skills to have when I went to the US on my own at 18.

I want my child to be anything she wants to be not an unpaid servant counting down the hours to the school run.

@DoubleTweenQueen

Many professions simply don’t have the flexibility - you can request (and sometimes get) flexible working, however that doesn’t mean you don’t need to still do full-time, in your own time. Judging any situation based on personal anecdote is not a panacea for the whole subject.

Of course not all professions offer flexibility but lots do and the number is increasing- I study this data for a living so I'm not just talking about personal anecdotes.

I want my child to be anything she wants to be not an unpaid servant counting down the hours to the school run

She might want to be a full time parent. There’s nothing aspirational about being a wage slave.

There is no right or wrong though, is there? I'm a 'do what works for you' sort, without judgement of either side!

Not sure why this thread has been taken over by posters arguing about whether or not one parent should be a sahp.

The OP was asking if they were being unreasonable to think that it's sad that BOTH people NEED to work nowadays to afford a household. It wasn't asking for views on working parents as opposed to sahp.

@DelBocaVista I'm not only posting in answer to you.

@G5000

what about those who would rather hang round with less sensible friends because they want some company?

Do you have teenagers? So you think that a teenager who wants to hang out with less sensible friends would choose to do that only because they can't hang out with mummy and bake cupcakes?

Mmm. A bit sneery here? My teens certainly didn't hang out with mummy or bake cupcakes! We did, however, go for the occasional fast food treat. Mainly they ignored me (it's what teenagers do!) . But I was there if they needed someone to talk to or actually do something with when they wanted. And we had an open house so they could bring in friends at any time and there was always food available ( I liked cooking) and their friends who faced going back to any empty house could hang out at ours and did. And no. I wasn't spending my time hoping my kids would talk to me... I have my own interests, but if they needed me I was available. My husband worked incredibly long hours so I was fortunate to be able to choose to be the available one. I know I was fortunate - both being able to choose between work at home or paid employment and also having enough interests never to be bored.

Have to say that I hope there will be more equality in the future but I would also not want my DDs to be SAHMs
Where I stay there are lots of SAHMs who really push their DDs to go for medicine/law etc ,but don’t see that is not the example they are setting

@Alsohuman wage slave . So no one in your family is a wage slave. What do you and your children live on them, do you eat the Communist Manifesto for breakfast instead of cereal?

She might want to be a full time parent. There’s nothing aspirational about being a wage slave.

Wage slave!! I'm guessing you live off fresh air then 🤷🏼‍♀️

Funny how women are always ‘wage slaves’ but men absolutely adore their amazing careers.

@Bythemillpond

lynsey91

When exactly in the past was it "quite possible for everyone to support their family on one wage

I grew up in the 60s/70s and in a street of 50 houses there were only about 5 houses where both parents worked
I can only think of one woman who went out to work after she got married and I only remember her because of how strange it seemed at the time and it was the talk of a lot of the women in the street that her husband couldn’t afford to keep her at home. She too gave up work as soon as she had a baby.

I think maybe it was different areas had different expectations.
Holidays were in a Blackpool boarding house or fruit picking with the whole family.
Money was always very tight for us but for a few children in the road they seemed to have a very nice life. Nothing flash, rented council house, no car or anything but they seemed to be comfortable and have everything they needed on one income.

Bythemillpond

Sounds like my childhood! My Mum went back to work when I started school but we had family in the village and I was always picked up from school by a relative and then dropped off at home when my parents returned from work. She did it because she wanted the professional challenge not because we needed the money and she didn't worry what people thought.

Today, a lot of it is about expectation and, as someone said previously, expenditure expanding to fill available income. I work with a single mum who doesn't have an awful lot of money - older car, modest holidays, house not full of gadgets etc. But she is happy and has well-adjusted kids who are into wildlife and the environment and not honestly bothered about the latest iphone or whatever.

Equally, there are colleagues who are high earners and their partners are as well and their level of household expenditure is phenomenal. The last year has been A DISASTER apparently because they weren't able to spend their usual £10k on a family holiday to somewhere exotic. The family time spent on a fortnight in Norfolk was awful because they felt guilty and the teenagers whinged all the time. One colleague is seriously upset that they can't afford a private bathroom for their teenage daughter who is NOT HAPPY because all (?) her schoolfriends have them. Poor treasure is seriously disadvantaged and they are bad parents. What?

@wantanotherdog my DS isn't a teen yet but I'm a working parent and I'm finished work before school finishes. It's not a case of either be a SAHP or teens coming home to an empty house every day.

My teens sometimes came home to an empty house. They managed to turn on the lights if need be .
They appear to be lovely adults now - though I do worry they’ve overused their fingers turning on those lights.