To think it's a bit sad that both people nowadays need to work to afford a household?

[Lowef]

I know this isn't a popular opinion on MN but was thinking how rubbish it is that today mostly both parents need to be working to be able to afford the basics of food, clothing, rent. mortgage etc for the family without being on the breadline.

I have really fond memories of playing with my mum in the garden planting pots, watching her cook whilst i sat on the worktop. She'd collect us from school everyday and on fridays she'd have baked some warm muffins, sweet buns which were still warm and fresh from the oven. She'd give some to my friends too. She taught me so many things like sewing, cooking, gardening (she was very green fingered), growing veg. She spent alot of time with us kids and i look back at those days really fondly.

In comparison I am nothing like this with my children - I just don't seem to have the time and energy for the things she did. I can't bake cupcakes in time for the kids school pick up as they're in the after school club. Dinner is a quick whisk up whatever I have in the freezer / fridge , I'm too frazzled and tired for spending lots of time with the kids. DH is the same.

In an an ideal world i would love to be a SAHM and have more energy and time for my family and myself too instead of just rushing through life. The years are going by so fast and most of my energy and life is taken up by work. The children are growing up so quickly.

Not sure if anyone else feels the same too or if ill get an MN roasting!

Do you think single parents dont exist? Or isnit that you think all single parents must live in abject poverty or only survive in receipt of benefits ?(not saying anything wrong with benefits but just odd that you seem to have such a skewed view of the world that this must be the only possibility?

[quote Ylvamoon]@dotdashdashdash - have a look at all the teens with mental health issues. A large proportion has been in nursery from an early age.
Anyone who knows a bit about child developed is aware of the importance of the first 3 years. Having a SAHP is beneficial.

It's our current economic climate & increase woman wanting to work that forces the wage v living cost decline.
I do know that my view is not shared by many MN users...[/quote]
I was a teen with serious MH issues. My mum was a SAHP. There's a significant difference between correlation and causation.

[quote Ylvamoon]@dotdashdashdash - have a look at all the teens with mental health issues. A large proportion has been in nursery from an early age.
Anyone who knows a bit about child developed is aware of the importance of the first 3 years. Having a SAHP is beneficial.

It's our current economic climate & increase woman wanting to work that forces the wage v living cost decline.
I do know that my view is not shared by many MN users...[/quote]
Being at nursery or home has no bearing on how loved, secure and supported a child feels by their parents. Just because a parent is with them 24/7 doesnt mean the child's mental health will be better. You are mixing up correlation with causation....basic critical thinking error

I voted YABU as a lot of working class families never had that luxury.

Having researched my family tree, I have to go back a number of generations to find a women who didn’t work in my family.

My personal opinion is that lots of people don't actually need to both work.

For many it is very much a life choice, we do not actually need cars, flat screen TV's, foreign holidays, expensive clothes, meals out, detached houses, dishwashers, sky packages, smart phones etc etc etc

It's just a trade off many of us make without much thought.

The modern world is designed to keep us miserable and scared, this makes us buy lots of junk we don't really need.

A slightly extreme example is a couple that live in the same village as us, they live a very modest lifestyle, grow their own fruit & veg etc. But decided to both retire at the age of 40. They worked hard to pay off a mortgage and accumulate some savings. They do some occasional jobs but less than 1 day a week. For this they sacrifice more modern comforts than most would be willing to.

My husband has always earned silly money - but I still went back to work.
I just found I wanted work life and family life.
My kids are all grown up now and are bloody fantastic.
I don’t regret a thing.

Having researched my family tree, I have to go back a number of generations to find a women who didn’t work in my family.

I don't think I could find any SAHMs, ever. Yes some generations ago the women mostly worked on their own farms, but their life was certainly no cupcake-baking and fingerpainting.

@HelloMissus

My husband has always earned silly money - but I still went back to work. I just found I wanted work life and family life. My kids are all grown up now and are bloody fantastic. I don’t regret a thing.

We're in the same position, were fortunate I earn enough to support us both. My wife had 3 years off to be a mum and then when he started school etc she felt she wanted to phase back in to work.

She had a career before she met me and long before we had him, she's a great mum but still enjoys having a work life too.

CB same.
I ended up a SAHM for a couple years due to a few reasons and it was fine. I wasn’t unhappy.
But then an opportunity came up and I took it.
We’ve all had a lovely life really and the kids are just so great. Never had any serious problems with any of them. Me and DH still together too.

I think it is important for both parents to work some hours at least at some point, more couples split now than they did years ago leaving the woman in a precarious position if anything does happen.

I know you've got tonnes of replies but I totally agree.
I think the most ideal setup is one full time wage covering the bills. One home partner can sprt all the house stuff out and people actually get the evening to enjoy their family and down time.

Both partners being needed to work full time just leaves no fun or relaxing time and constantly stressed couples

My situation is that DH works full time, I work part time in community nursing, have done nursery/school drop offs and pick ups for years and now they are all in school I am back at uni training for my degree In the hopes of better money to perhaps buy a house and put more money towards pensions

Having researched my family tree, I have to go back a number of generations to find a women who didn’t work in my family.

Me too. My mum, both grans and great grans all worked.

Well, my at-home mother did none of those things - her idea of baking was premade cookie pie tins that you slung in and pulled out. Most of her cooking came from boxes, it was the luxury thing to not have to make your own, and she still relied on 'mother's little helpers', but I agree that it's frustrating that economically we're set up for households with 2 adults working full time. I live in a 3 adult household which has made things easier, but the last year has been all over the place economically - it can take just a little things to knock people around with things as they are.

There is quite a bit of writing in the past of how once we'd automated all the things, then we'd all be working less - but it didn't happen - more work was created, some of which is pretty pointless even though there is obviously so much work that could be done to make things better, but there is little funding to do it by those who could fund it.

And yes, there has been some changes to lifestyle, and some of us with higher expenses with medical needs that might not have lasted so long in the past but there has also been changes in society that expects a higher level of spending. I mean, I know secondary schools near me that between the changes to academies, changes in academy trusts, parachuted in new head teachers all of which seem to feel a need to change the uniforms so some families have had to buy new 3-4 times as there wasn't any other option, there are no hand-me-downs if there is a new uniform. I wasn't raised British, but I've not heard yet of anyone talk about anything similar to this extent previously. One change, maybe, but not to this level and certainly not down to the logo'd socks for state schools.

Good point @KatharinaRosalie - the first woman I could find who didn’t have a job listed was a farm labourer’s wife, so I’m pretty sure she still worked on the farm!

It’s a very privileged position to be in, to not have to work to support your family & it’s not one that is just a modern day scenario. This has happened for generations all over the world.

My mum was probably the first who didn’t need to work, and we could have survived as a family on just my dad’s salary. However, she instilled a strong work ethic & also showed us the importance of maintaining your own earning potential and financial independence, should our husbands not have been as wonderful as my dad

My mother always worked but only part time - so she always took us and met us from school. I did the same with mine, I had to take them to breakfast club but at least I could take them in and I always met them. My 3 eldest have left primary now but I still take and meet the youngest, I stopped working 3 years ago but am thinking that I might get another PT job soon, not for money but I just feel that I’d enjoy working again.

Depends where you buy. I could be a SAHM but I value my sanity (with blessings to DS!) so I work part time and bloody love my job. But our semi was only 90k. God bless former mining villages in the bleak Midlands

It was always inevitable. The moment married women entered the workplace, the bosses got cheaper labour. This reduced the wages for all due to competition. It is now unusual for the married man to earn enough such that the married woman can afford to stay home. Obviously all women should have a job if they wish, but the moment they accepted less than the man for the same job, the average household income suffered.

I agree that the cost of living these days takes away choice for many families and makes life totally stressful and miserable for others, definitely. Also agree about expectations of standard of living - I grew up in the 80s and 90s with UK self catering holidays, only eating out for very special occasions, anything like the cinema or days out were a very special treat, one second hand car, etc. and that was the norm for everyone we knew.

However, DH and I work full time and we both play games, do baking, do gardening, other activities with the DCs. I remember doing these things as a child - baking, being taken to the park, on bike rides, board games etc. - and we still do this? Yes they go to a childminder after school, but outside of that we do all the same things I remember from 30 years ago.

One thing that helped push up the price of houses is the freeing up of credit. Back in the 70s/early 80s, the amount you could get on a mortgage was about 3x one earners salary plus once x the other, on the assumption that if you started a family that wage would be lost, but you would still be able to pay the mortgage. Most mortgages came from building societies, whose CEOs used to meet every month to set the mortgage rate, depending on the bank base rate and other factors. In the 90s and onwards the market was deregulated, and banks lent on how much the lender could afford. We took out a 10 year, fixed rate mortgage in the early 90s at, what we thought was a low rate of 8.9%. Lenders were also offering loans of 125% of the property value so you could buy a house, and have money for furniture/new car/holiday. The government seemed to encourage this as house price inflation leads to people with houses feeling wealthier. It all came crashing down in the 2008 crash. The problem is, we now have very high house prices and you need 2 salaries to pay the mortgage. Let's hope interest rates don't rise back to the early 90s levels.

@IsItAugustYet. Why on earth is it an issue that a working couples income is taken into account for mortgages? That working couples shouldn’t enjoy the benefits of their labour so you can afford a better house whilst staying home to make cupcakes? Fuck that.

@KatharinaRosalie

Having researched my family tree, I have to go back a number of generations to find a women who didn’t work in my family.

I don't think I could find any SAHMs, ever. Yes some generations ago the women mostly worked on their own farms, but their life was certainly no cupcake-baking and fingerpainting.

This! My mum was a SAHM until my sister and I were at school, then she did freelance work then eventually part time office work and at one point two jobs. My grandmothers were a nurse and and an estate agent. Great-grandmothers worked on farms, as a dressmaker, ran a pub...

Yes, some were at home when they had very young children but they definitely worked.

@Snookie00 I think you’ve tagged the wrong poster

@SnackSizeRaisin

Society does not value the stay at home parent.

That's because a stay at home parent is generally not contributing to society. It's only of value to their own family. Nothing wrong with being a stay at home parent, but it's of no value to society in general

Load of nonsense. Family members ARE part of society. Plus lots of sahps do volunteer work, school governor etc

I'm sorry OP but I find your point of view patronising - you title your AIBU about both parents having to work - and then immediately transfer your memories to those with your Mum - ipso facto it would be the Mum who would stay at home to create those #blessed memories - well I'm sorry but times have moved on - women can also choose to work and have careers. I spent 5 years at University - then 3 further years of intense training and exams to gain my professional qualification and today (and for years now) earn significantly more than the PM as well as having a successful property portfolio! This is not a stealth boast that's just the way it is and why would I give that up to bake cakes and pot plants? Total waste of my intellect and earning capacity. And if you are going down that route then why would you not consider your husband to stay home and bake cookies?? You'll probably tell me it's because he earns more than you - fair enough but that is NEVER going to change as long as we have women expecting women to be the ones who stay home! Why do we have the terms "working mum" and not "working dad" - when it should be working parent!?!?! Research has also shown that it benefits BOTH boys and girls to grow up in a household where the Mum works - girls because they have a role model in a mother who could have BOTH a career AND be a Mum and boys who grew up to see their mum holding an equal place in the house when it came to career and hopefully dad when it came to helping around the house and so when it comes to them having a family they see 50% of the responsibility as theirs!! Also kids of working (especially professional working) Mums are more likely to go to University, as they expectation is there from BOTH parents, which is very important for girls. I work in a traditionally very male dominated industry and work so hard daily to assist more junior female members of staff to get promoted and increase their salaries so that it is worth their while going back to work following having a family - I do not encourage them to think about staying home to bake cupcakes. We will never get near the 30% club with those attitudes...... what about all the discoveries made by female scientists - so many were involved in the recent vaccine research - surely they are better being driven and motivated by their work and not just their families. What if your husband dies, or runs off with someone and divorces you - I always tell young women who work for me that they need to have their own financial freedom - my Mum didn't have hers - and while my Dad was great - in that he got paid and she managed the money - she always missed having her own income. I have all those memories of being collected from school, coming home to the fire lighting and freshly baked bread and cakes - and my Mum always had time for me - but she was also bored and unhappy at times - especially when I started school and started to make my own life and moved away to University - she missed me terribly as so much of her life was built around mine and I would have loved nothing more than for her to have a job and her own independence, which would have meant that when I left school she still had her own life! And yes - my working has meant my kids have things in life they would not have if I didn't - and are well rounded - stable and outgoing kids - who took lockdown very much in their stride...... they have a far more interesting life because I work and get the chance to do things and go places they would otherwise never have. Yes I can honestly say that I have never potted plants with my kids - but I have been able to take them on great holidays - and encourage their interests be they sports or other...

And before you start that I must be a cold hearted Mum to go back to work etc - again why is it that we never expect Men to give up their careers when they have kids or why don't men feel the need to stay home and bake and do gardening and messy painting? It's because of that - that gender inequality and the gender pay gap still exists in the workplace and will continue to do so - until such time as we start really encouraging young girls to go out there and follow their dream and instill in them that when a couple has kids it's BOTH parents who should be making those memories and for gods sake stop guilt tripping Mums that that is their role in life! It's 2021 - not 1921! Move on!