To worry that my DC have it too comfortable?

[Headyhurty]

They're 18 and 20yo. Both working full time, but not with any great prospects and they don't seem to have any drive for a good career. They both did just enough at school to get their 5 GCSEs with maths and english and to stay out of trouble, but no more than they had to. Neither interested in continuing their education.

This is alien to me as I was a proper swot at school and have always been driven in my career. They take after their father. DH did eventually apply himself after DC were born, in his 30s and ended up a decent earner despite no qualifications, but the entry routes he took aren't available to people without a degree today.

DC have always been expected to do chores, to work, I don't think they've been spoilt particularly, they never had designer labels unless they paid for them, toys and devices only at birthdays etc, but ultimately whenever any disaster befalls us or them, we are comfortable enough to deal with it relatively painlessly. I'm not even sure it's a concious position, they aren't outwardly entitled, but they seem to just know everything will be OK for them.

Now, this is the place you'd want your DC to be, I supposed, but it would like them to achieve something for themselves too, even if onyl for the sense of achievement.

I dotn give them anything except modest birthday and Christmas presents now and they pat some keep, but with no real expenses they are very comfortable financially and don't seem to feel any need to better themselves. TBF, they don't want a lot materially, most of their money is spent on takeaways!

Or maybe they've got it right and it's me who shouldn't have pushed myself so hard?

Are you comparing them to other friends dc of a similar age or are you on MN a lot? Because on here pushing for amazing A levels and then RG University is deemed very desirable and seems to be the norm for a lot of posters. So anything different to that may not feel enough. DH and I did that route I also studied for professional exams for years part time. We were very career drive

I have a DS who is deciding what to do and is at home working in a temp to perm job and he is still temp. It’s also part time though he is looking for full time work, it’s brutal out there jobs wise. He only gives us £20 a week but is saving up hard.

Your dc sound perfectly fine.

When it comes to their housekeep amount I have no idea if that is an ok amount your dc are paying due to your household circumstances and what percentage of their wage it is.

I do think dc should pay something even if nominal like my DS. We do not need the money at all, some families do need it. Then there is the percentage of the wage given as keep. My Mother wanted and got 50% of my wage. It felt pretty unjust at the time and I ate in the works canteen often as it was 50 pence for two courses. DH gave his parents 25%, we both worked for a year before we went to University. This is 30 years ago, I earned £40 PW DH has just revealed he earned £100 PW! that was a great wage for the time. He was working as a research technician in a laboratory for a major firm and I was working on a checkout.

@Headyhurty

I'm not disappointed in them, I'm very proud of the people they are but I am concerned that they don't understand what it tales to have the lifestyle they're used to. Annual holidays, swimming lessons for DC, reliable cars, comfortable home, tuition if DS2 for English DS1 for maths DC need it to get through GCSE etc etc

So... tell them? Sit down and go through your household income with them (including pointing out taxes etc on payslips so they don't think £X for a job is what'll be in their pocket). Go through all your outgoings with them and let them see how quickly it all adds up. £X on house, £X on car, £X on food... Include non-regular expenses like Christmas and holidays and new boilers.

My parents banged on about how I didn't know how good I had it. To this day I don't know how much either of them earned or how much any of their household bills were, so how on earth could I contextualise how good a job I'd need to afford that lifestyle? They told me if I went into [low paying career] I'd end up living in a cardboard box, but to me any money with "thousand" on the end of it was loads, so the difference between £15k and £80k was purely theoretical and I could only guess where my parents were on that scale.

Bonus points if you give them your household income first and let them guess/research how they would allocate spending for the household first, then compare it with the real numbers.

I think going to university for the sake of it is a waste of time these days, especially due to the cost.

But maybe you could encourage them into a career that has some long term prospects, nurse, electrician, plumber, accountant etc.

OP I think most posters are missing the point - which is the issue of your DC expectations. Except for some like @billy1966
Most people are aware that you don't just walk into well-paying jobs. Even for professional jobs you may have to start at the bottom and not very well paid. Loads of people start as receptionists etc then move up. But they are aware that while they're striving they have to make sacrifices with money and live in suboptimal conditions.

Your DC however seem to think that they will be able to maintain this lifestyle their entire lives with no effort whatsoever.

I agree with PP - they have too much free spending money, and they should live on 40% of their salary. With bills etc paid that's more than enough.

@SweetLathyrus ah... an academic... do you go out of your way to tell people the actual value of a degree at open days?
It is devalued in the job market because everybody and their dog now has one.
The true value of going to university is the opportunity for academic exploration - doesn't happen when academics are to busy to give students the time of the day and courses are filled with students who have no business going to uni and don't care as long as they pass with a 2:1, which requires little effort.
Also to figure out what you want from a career - also slightly useless as uni career services are under resourced.

And you wonder why grads have no idea what they want to do...?

Full-time degrees should only be for the actually academic.
Courses which have no business being a degree should be offered as professional qualifications. Or as short 2 year courses, online lessons, whatever. Certainly not an academic 9k a year degree.

I say this as someone whose degree doesn't allow one to work in the field, only the professional qualifications. And the latter are just as rigurous. Equally if you;re going to be a Sound Engineer what is the point of a degree? Just go and work with some bands.

but the UK is so snobby about degrees... as worhtless as they are nowadays

*sorry for typos - before you jump on me , I'm typing on my phone

Actually, @TheLastLotus, I spend a lot of time at open days talking to students about what they want to do and the best way to achieve it - I would rather not have students who think any degree (with only a few exceptions) lead directly to a spectacular job, I spend even more time disabusing parents of similar ideas, but yes, I do talk about why I think my discipline is facsinating and important and I firmly believe in the idea of knowledge for its own sake.

But I think you have misunderstood me (and you are dismissing me as 'academic' - yeah ivory tower blah blah blah - I've never worn tweed, nor do I sup sherry with the Dean and I am very well aware of the 'real world'). I think young people should know they have time and options, the OPs children sound very sorted for where they and the world are right now. I was trying to say that the government prescribed route, 16 - GCSE, 18 - A-Level, 21 - UG degree isn't right for everyone.

Oh and I know the name of every undergraduate I teach.

@SweetLathyrus fair enough. If we had more academics like you the university system would not be as broken as it is now.

They are still quite young. I'd be inclined to give them another year or two, then the eldest at least may start noticing peers progressing to better jobs, extra money for holidays, maybe a fun flat with friends and might start seeing the appeal.

If you want to nudge towards independence I think it would be fine to starting introducing a few more realistic costs. Higher rent, actual contribution to the real costs of car ownership, utility bills, internet costs, food costs. They might just need a little push towards adulthood.

I do think a lot of young people don't quite realise how much you need to earn to live well as an adult. You get threads of people on here who earn £23k and are perplexed as to why they don't feel rich/can't afford a 4 bed detached, range rover and ski holidays. My parents were better than most about explaining the costs of housing etc but even I only realised how much water cost at university.

My dc1 was similar. He barely got his A-levels and was due to start uni. He realised that university isn't worth £20k of debt a year if you're doing it because it's expected. University is for the rich or people going into jobs that require further study.

He's currently 20. He only pays for his food and phone here. The rest is split between a LISA, short term savings and fun money. I don't take rent because I'd rather he added to his LISA. Since he left sixth form, he has managed to save several thousand in his short term savings and LISA which is great news.

I went through the traditional A-level then degree route. Because of his dodgy GCSE grades, two of ds A-level are actually BTEC and it really opened my eyes. I completely missed a trick by not knowing about vocational qualifications and apprenticeships. This would have suited DS down to a tea because he found great satisfaction at his part-time job during Sixth Form and unlike at school, he has happily taken advantage of training opportunities at work and has a variety of qualifications from there. I am really happy to see him motivated. He's on an apprenticeship with a real career path now. Really exciting for him

DH left school with no qualifications. I went to uni. Can you guess which one of us earns more now? DH worked his way up with vocational qualifications, which I would argue are much more valuable in today's workplace than a degree*

Many of the routes to do this simply don't exist now. Its statistically far more likely that a young person will end up paid more if they get decent grades at school & progress to further education, than if they leave with nothing and move into a job with no training or further education prospects.

@ForThePurposeOfTheTape uni definitely isn’t suitable for everyone , but the point is your son took advantage of further qualifications at work.
OP says that neither of her sons are interested in or even taking thinking of taking advantage of such opportunities at this stage

@TheLastLotus, thank you, I work with lots of very good academics, but I also know some who are arses!

My own daughter is working in what might be viewed as menial jobs at the point most of her friends have just finished their first Uni year, it's taken/taking time to work out what she wants to do and how to do it, but I feel this means she has very much made choices she can and should own.