To think that MOST women would not be able to have children if it depended on them being financially independent

[KateWinceyette]

I said most, not all. So I'm not talking about CEOs or corporate law partners or hedge fund managers.

It's come up on a couple of threads, that you shouldn't have DC if that makes you financially dependent on their father. But I think the majority of women wouldn't be able to afford mortgage, bills, childcare etc without a significant contribution from the dad. Or the equity from the house they bought together.

Am I missing something?

I think that's true really for most people. A single father would normally find it just as hard to work, pay for childcare, etc.

A single income is tough to manage on when raising children but it is clearly perfectly doable considering how many people do in fact do it

True for most men too.

@VettiyaIruken

I think that's true really for most people. A single father would normally find it just as hard to work, pay for childcare, etc.

A single income is tough to manage on when raising children but it is clearly perfectly doable considering how many people do in fact do it

I wonder how many people depend on Universal Credit in those circumstances. Not that I'm knocking it but it doesn't make them financially independent.

I'd struggle on a single income as a single person, so would really struggle as a single parent. But... We earn about the same amount and contribute fairly equally to all expenses so I'm no more financially dependent on him than he is on me

Women have better earning power now, but that’s saturated by living costs going up. A lot of single parents can only afford to be alone because of state benefits, whilst the NRP, who won’t be entitled to state help, will likely struggle on a single wage too.

Why is it only women who would struggle in your opinion OP?

Both me and DH would manage on one of our single salaries..it would be tight but we earn enough to just about cover everything (including wrap around childcare). That wouldn't have been the case for me if I gave up my career/went part time after DS was born.

It's come up on a couple of threads, that you shouldn't have DC if that makes you financially dependent on their father

I don’t think it’s that you ‘shouldn’t have kids’ more that you should protect yourself before becoming a SAHM if it leaves you financially dependent.

Yes and I find the lack of recognition of that quite irritating on CMS threads. I’m not saying men shouldn’t pay maintenance, but I think people forget that, when in receipt of state benefits, they aren’t supporting their children themselves. The state is. The amount they receive is benefits is often a really significant amount.

No you're not wrong. The cost of children is more than the majority of single people can bare without recourse to benefits.

I have known a few single fathers who didn't claim benefits and worked full time. But in every case they didn't become single fathers until the children were at school so had managed to stay in unbroken full time work though out their children's babyhoods plus they received quite a bit of practical help from relatives - their mother doing after school care as an example.

Yes i think for most couples are interdependent on each other. My husband is finacially dependent on me and i am financially dependent on him.

Any many single households and indeed many couples are also reliant on top up benefits.

Its housing and childcare costs that make it tough

I think it depends on how you cut your cloth to use my mums phrase, as in your spend Vs income and also a level of job.

I’ve coped with no maintenance and three kids financially but only dropped the need for working credits or whatever the phrase is for childcare help when I hit middle manager. Only felt financially comfortable to do as we please (within reason) from division lead, so around £40k. Now I’m at very senior level life is relatively free.

You don’t need to be a hedge fund manager but equally you’d struggle at a low level!

I did effectively that - ex left when our second hasn't been born yet and the first was 1, had no reliance on public funds (did not have permission to access). My full childcare + rent bill was £4'131/month for the first year (an equivalent of £75K gross salary), for a very basic nursery and a one bed flat, and yes there's a reason why I remember it down to a pound.

I think you would need to be on a pretty good wage and have had time to build up savings to be financially independent so most mums would be older when they have kids and maybe less kids per family. I dont know enough about average earnings to know if it's most individuals but it would be a significant proportion.

Probably lots

What you are failing to take into consideration is the starting positions. If you have already taken a career hit in order to be a family unit with one working outside the home and one not, you have created a situation where if you remove the one bringing the wage you remove , obviously, the money and there you have what you see as someone who can't have children independently.

If people had children on their own then finances and jobs would be different.

You need to not look at the woman with two young kids whose partner walked out on her and now she's on benefits. You need to look at the starting position. At who took what roles. At how removing either would affect the whole set up.

Why wouldn't you depend on the other parent to financially support their DC?
I'm thinking you mean most people.

I think a lot of women only become financially dependent on men once they have kids.

In my friendship circle, both partners had professional jobs pre kids but in the majority of cases the women wanted to be PT or SAHP once they had kids. Once you’ve made the jump to SAHP or PT it can be very tricky to get back into a full time career. A full time career with decent pay is the only way any single parent could survive without needing benefits. Obviously if maintenance was nonnegotiable, which is currently isn’t, this wouldn’t be such an issue.

Think pre school, difficult unless not paying for childcare. Once in school doable if only one dc. My best decision was leaving ex when I only had one dc, more than one would have made things much more difficult. Once no longer paying childcare, easy on only my salary however I bought house pre ex so that helps as trying to save to buy while paying rent and having dc as a sp must be next to impossible

I think maternity leave would be very different. Less people would take close to a year off or statutory maternity pay would need to be better.

I’m the main earner in my house and SMP will roughly cover the mortgage but not much else, my DH’s income means we won’t have to rely on savings whilst I’m off. But if I was on my own I could still afford to have a child as I’m able to save money generally. I earn less than the national average and once back at work I would be able to afford full time childcare and pay other costs on my wage alone.

Isn’t this why Gordon Brown introduced the original tax credit system ?

I was born at the end of WW2 so growing up, I've seen many women raise children alone in very challenging circumstances. They rose to the occasion because they had no choice. Lone mothers are far stronger and more resilient than some of them think.

Most of the miserable women and mothers on MN, appear to be suffering because they are NOT alone. They are being dragged down by staying with some dependent leech manchild who is bleeding them dry in every way.

I think I could manage if I didn't have a big mortgage (which, of course, I can only afford because we have two incomes). But I think you're right, MOST people couldn't, I have a pretty decent wage.

You're right. Luckily dd has 2 parents to pay the bills.

I'm 39. I need a full time job to pay my mortgage and other monthly bills. I HAVE to work full time. Where does a child fit into that without tying myself into a man?
If I won the lottery I'd probably have one.....but I've never seen a way.

@2bazookas wins post of the week 👏👏

I think often those threads are more about taking time out of work and marriage as a guarantee etc