To think that MOST women would not be able to have children if it depended on them being financially independent

[KateWinceyette]

I said most, not all. So I'm not talking about CEOs or corporate law partners or hedge fund managers.

It's come up on a couple of threads, that you shouldn't have DC if that makes you financially dependent on their father. But I think the majority of women wouldn't be able to afford mortgage, bills, childcare etc without a significant contribution from the dad. Or the equity from the house they bought together.

Am I missing something?

I disagree about women. Just as much men. I earn enough to raise my children independently, I have a husband but he's unemployed, and I cover our mortgage, childcare and everything else pretty easily and I'm in London. I know this isn't the norm for most but whether someone's male or female has little bearing on that.

Yes, I think affording DC is something much easier for two.

And that's why marriage matters - because if you don't have the legal underpinnings you get nothing but CM if things go horribly wrong, even if you have surrendered your career prospects and financial independence. That's when it becomes important to maintain independence and return to work. Because mitigating the risk of being left high and dry needs to be considered one way or another

@northerngal2021

No I agree I earn 87k but have 3 kids and a mortgage of £2.3k. If I was single I'd have a cheaper mortgage but not much cheaper. My take home is around £4.7k but after mortgage and bills money would be tight and no holidays or cheap camping trips etc and probably no kids hobbies Pretty crap on such a high base salary really

If you can’t afford a mortgage, bills and a life on 4.7k a month you’re doing something very wrong.

@ allLbnc2021 bollocks! If she's paying childcare all on her own then it could easily be very tight. My mortgage is the same and childcare is 1500 a month for one child, let alone 3. It really depends on area!

You're mixing up two issues here.
People say not to give up work completely for the DC without any protection. This means being a SAHM to an unmarried partner for example.

It is also true that many people on less than average incomes would struggle to afford children on their own. Two people earning 25k (slightly below the national average of 30k) makes a household income of £50K which is more than enough to raise a child.
Compare a single parent on only 25K PLUS an extra mouth to feed

I would say that I’m not financially dependent on my husband it’s my children who are.
Which is why child maintenance exists. I know it’s not great, underestimates the cost of a child and many men get away without paying but in principle it’s for the financially dependent children.
As an adult I earn enough to keep me.

I think it’s more about how single mums to be financially stable have to work and don’t have the choice to stay at home
Plenty of women single or in couple however work full time.

Yanbu. My husband earns a reasonable wage but equally without me, he’d struggle financially if he had to pay for full time childcare for our children.

I think it's true of a single parent regardless of sex.
To pay for childcare and all household bills, that's a lot of money!!!

@VettiyaIruken

What is it you're hinting at then? No two people should ever have a family together unless each of them earns enough individually to pay for everything in the event the other vanishes? Sharing resources in a family isn't abnormal.

I'm not hinting at anything. My OP is clear.

Well, it’s not really clear - why women and not men?

Not really. Unless you think women reproduce by ourselves.

I mean, do men and women not have full and equal responsibility for the financial support of the children they create? Why should women be in a position where it's all on us?

I was the main and now due to Covid am the only earner in my house. I could afford children but chose not to have them. If we had had them my husband could've been a SAHD. I am not by any definition a high earner.

I think people forget that, when in receipt of state benefits, they aren’t supporting their children themselves. The state is

How fucking rude. Erm....I think that people forget that people in receipt of tax credits and uni resale credit are also working. I am a single parent, full time teacher and I do additional work like exam marking. I still have an entitlement to tax credits. The state is most definitely helping me but I am absolutely doing everything - and some - that I can to support my children. How dare you suggest otherwise.

Maybe think a bit occasionally?

We brought ours up on a single income until 8 because I stayed home and did childcare. Even on his professional salary exh couldn't afford to pay childcare costs

YABU. DH and I can get by on either of our salaries as one covers all the essentials. We just like to have more disposable income for the children to do non essential extra curricular activities and holidays etc.

I think that your argument is backwards.

If women knew they would have to be financially independent after having children, they'd be less likely to choose lower paying but (supposedly at least) more family friendly jobs, or take a step back at work after having children, and most importantly they would march in the streets to demand better government support for childcare, like there is in most of the rest of Europe.

As it is, most women feel - often incorrectly - that they can rely on a decent level of support from their partner, their own savings, or the benefit system, so they choose more time with their children at the expense of independence. I fully understand this choice and in many ways I really really envy women for whom this has worked out. I'm lucky I didn't pursue this path though, as my circumstances meant i did need to be financially independent, and being a comfortably off, employable single mother is not always easy but is certainly a lot less struggle than for so many of my fellow single parent friends.

But if all women strive to be not just financially independent but also able to support their off spring, i dont understand why fathers are let off the hook. I know some are crap but surely you want a situation were men are also responsible for thier children as the norm?

@EnoughnowIthink

I think people forget that, when in receipt of state benefits, they aren’t supporting their children themselves. The state is

How fucking rude. Erm....I think that people forget that people in receipt of tax credits and uni resale credit are also working. I am a single parent, full time teacher and I do additional work like exam marking. I still have an entitlement to tax credits. The state is most definitely helping me but I am absolutely doing everything - and some - that I can to support my children. How dare you suggest otherwise.

Maybe think a bit occasionally?

I don't understand the harsh reaction to this, it was just a statement of fact: if the state is having to top up your income it's because you're not able to financially support for all of your children's needs, surely?

It's a sad state of affairs that salaries for many people are not sufficient to meet the cost of living and providing for their own children, and is no reflection on those who need that financial assistance, but the poster was simply stating the reality as far as I can see?

If you can’t afford a mortgage, bills and a life on 4.7k a month you’re doing something very wrong.

Clueless nonsense @Lbnc2021. Mortgage and childcare costs alone for a basic property can easily be more than that in some areas of the country, not even in London, before you even get started on paying bills, food etc.

that you shouldn't have DC if that makes you financially dependent on their father.

That's not what I read on here? It's more - don't give up work to look after the kids if you aren't married and/or live in your DP's house.

We pay life cover and income protection premiums for a reason. Neither of us could pay the mortgage, council tax, utilities, nursery bill and car costs alone, so I work part-time which balances the childcare bill.

We could live on my salary alone, we couldn't really manage on just DHs. If it was just me and DS we'd be fine financially. I'm not a city high flier, I have a decent public sector job.

If you didnt meet DP/DH and have DC you wouldnt (jointly) choose a particular mortgage, incur childcare costs (or give up work), which are the biggest expenses. Most single women AND men can afford to keep themselves alive without benefits.