Greed of ‘buy to let’

[LittleLottieChaos]

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

FYI Our tenants really appreciate all we do and we appreciate their respect for our property. Hence we charged no rent at all between March and Sept 2020. They won’t need to pay this back, they are self employed with no furlough so we just didn’t charge. The council or mortgage lenders wouldn’t have done that!

Unfortunately we live in a free market economy and that’s what happens.

@Angrypregnantlady

I don't believe people should be able to own things just because they want to. There are millions of businesses earning money by supplying people with things they can't afford. Like smart phones on monthly contracts, credit cards, cars on credit, cars on lease, holiday villa rentals, flying. Can you afford a plane? No. But you get to use one because someone who can afford one buys it and let's you use it. Rental housing is just one of those things. You can't afford a house, but you get to live in one because someone who can afford it, buys it and lets you use it.

If you didn't get to own more/better things by working harder, then no one would work harder. So no one would do the big difficult jobs that need doing, no one would earn enough money to pay all the tax it takes to run this country including the massive benefits bill.

Firstly, there is a huge difference between buying a plane and basic human necessities such a shelter. Ridiculous argument.

Secondly, money rarely comes from 'working hard'. The biggest predictor of wealth is inheritance. We don't live in a world where people are born equal with equal opportunities, we live in a world where some are born into wealth while others are born into poverty.

Housing in most parts of the world is not a commodity like coffee or sugar, it's a basic human right

Hahahah hahhhaha ha ... ha

‘I HAVE A BASIC HUMAN RIGHT TO BUY A HOUSE, except I don’t have the money so I’ll just be angry because you can’

@VestaTilley

I have far less of a problem with BTL than I do with second home owners who leave a house empty for 9 months plus of the year and turn rural/coastal areas in to ghost villages.

One of the biggest beneficiaries of the stamp duty holiday has been wealthy second home buyers. It’s disgraceful.

That seems silly to me because they could let it when not using the house, at least some of the time, and most people have friends and family who would enjoy going there for a few days sometimes. I've had many a happy short break or holiday in a cottage or house with my family, there's definitely a market for it. That must be better than leaving it empty most of the time and good for the local area too.

money rarely comes from 'working hard

Keep telling yourself that, whilst you don’t work hard.

The less work you do just opens up space for someone else to take that opportunity.

@QueenBee70 and @EvilPea
Unfortunately I don't think I have the right hair (or the wallpaper) for the job.

We plan to buy to let in a few years. We hope that this will be an affordable investment to get the children through university and then started on the property ladder.

Others do it as a way to boost retirement income or as a primary or secondary source of income.

Nothing immoral about it.

It should not be allowed when there is a shortage of homes in an area . I live in a place where people queue up overnight when new builds come up for sale . Somewhere in the q there is always an investor that puts a deposit down on a number of places and people behind them lose the chance of a home :(
Also the cash rich investor keeps the prices higher I believe than they would go for .

[quote Tealightsandd]**@QueenBee70* and @EvilPea*
Unfortunately I don't think I have the right hair (or the wallpaper) for the job. [/quote]
Have you a penchant for John Lewis??!

I was confused by that: you let, your tenants rent.

That all sounds very satisfactory.

I'm a good, even indulgent, landlord - and have received no rent for 120 days, tenants are in arrears of £2,300. They were in arrears before that but at least paid something.

A bit of a dilemma. I am hoping the agents will sort out a payment plan for the tenants, one that they can stick to. I still have to pay the mortgage! I was prepared to lower the rent but there seems no point in that at the moment when they are not paying anyway. The rent is very reasonable as it is and it's a lovely place.

Greed is good. That's why house prices must rise forever in this country. And given the government's unrelenting support, they probably will.

@LaraLondon1

It should not be allowed when there is a shortage of homes in an area . I live in a place where people queue up overnight when new builds come up for sale . Somewhere in the q there is always an investor that puts a deposit down on a number of places and people behind them lose the chance of a home :( Also the cash rich investor keeps the prices higher I believe than they would go for .

We do need some private landlords but currently the balance is wrong.

What you describe above needs to mostly, if not completely, end. At the very least, significantly limited.

As I said upthread, the role of private landlord can be filled sufficiently by people who move in with a partner or to a larger family home and let out their old place, and those who inherit.

The others - the investors who snap up first time buyer and family homes, pricing out first time buyers and families. These are the ones we could cull.

We need to improve the system. Very obviously we need a lot more social housing (and immediate end to right to buy).

We need to legislate so that landlords cannot discriminate against tenants for being on benefits (indirect sex and disability discrimination), or for having children or for having well behaved, properly looked after pets.

Housing benefit amounts need to meet market rent levels.

Security of tenure needs to be improved. We need to end no fault evictions BUT make it easier for landlords to evict genuinely bad tenants.

I wouldn’t have a problem with it if there wasn’t a shortage of affordable housing to rent and buy. The problem is we have too many landlords snapping up houses as many are cash buyers, they then rent them out to tenants at unaffordable rates that the government tops up in benefits, this pushes house prices and rent up. It’s madness and the only people benefitting are landlords at the cost of everyone else.

@sipsmith1

Using that logic why do people profit from heating, food, healthcare, water...

There will always be a demand for rentals. I moved regularly with work in my 20s, I didn’t want to buy a house every six months.

Being a landlord is not the same as suppling food, healthcare, etc. A landlord doesn't produce anything. They aren't building houses, they are just taking up the existing supply.

@LittleLottieChaos

Interesting to read the comments. I of course understand a need for rental homes for some, or for those who enjoy renting. That’s fine.

If the rents can be fixed at a low rate to allow low level earners a chance at a better quality of life. Surely any one with half a brain cell can see how this would positively impact society on every level.

Really.....? Seriously, surely you see that this would cause there to be less landlords, as why would anyone buy a second property with no benefit to themselves.

What do you mean a car isn't a necessity 😆😆😆. You're seriously deluded if you think that, it obviously depends where you live. In London, nope it's not. In rural areas, extremely limited public transport, yes they most definitely are.
And yes shelter is a necessity, but the 'quality' of it perhaps is not. A couple with two kids might live in a two bed house, can't afford anything bigger. Is a three bed a necessity, no, it's a want.

@NC4THISS

money rarely comes from 'working hard

Keep telling yourself that, whilst you don’t work hard.

The less work you do just opens up space for someone else to take that opportunity.

Thanks for the spiteful comment. Actually I have a PhD, earn well above average salary, and own my own home - but don't let the pesky facts get in the way of being judgemental.

Don’t know too much about this,but I have the impression that some greedy people buy run down property,furnish it from tips and rubbish heaps then rent out to poor folk who really need a home.Now that is not on.

I have a property that I let out too, a small flat. I use a letting agent and they look after our tenants very well. Typically we have single people who are looking for a larger property to buy, or people who are working locally during the week but don't want to move permanently from where they usually live. At the moment we have an elderly man living there, his daughter lives locally but he wants to maintain his independence without the trouble of maintaining a property of his own.
I don't feel that I'm depriving a family of a house by letting my one bed flat to people who need to rent rather than buy a small flat.

@fataroundthemiddle

Don’t know too much about this,but I have the impression that some greedy people buy run down property,furnish it from tips and rubbish heaps then rent out to poor folk who really need a home.Now that is not on.

I'd have thought that was illegal in this day and age. There are regulations about letting properties.

There is an 'underground' or 'black market' of rentals, the sort of thing you see on documentaries where a whole heap of people occupy a three bed semi, sharing rooms, sleeping in bunks,etc (even sheds), but it isn't 'allowed', and if the landlords of these places are caught, they are prosecuted. So they should be, they definitely are greedy and exploit vulnerable people, migrant workers and the like. They are however in the minority.

I have read all 29 pages as I have professional and personal experience of renting. We have been unfortunate to have experienced the rougue end of landlords. 9 rentals in 12 years, one decent landlord. Why do we rent? We sold in the crash and then our business was burgled. We have spent £250000 on rent. We live in an axpensive area where rents are £2500 per month for a family sized house. We have suffered racism, harassment and been refused rentals for needing small disability adjustments. I recently posted on MN seeking advice for the way in which our then landlord was treating us. He wanted to sell and was incesensed he had to give us 6 months notice. He made our lives hell. I had numerous MN andlords insult me and tell me I should have been evicted. It got so nasty my solicitor asked to pull the thread. I now find out he will be visited by the local housing standards officer and I have a strong case for landlords disrepair compensation. I have no objection to landlords just the lack of regulation. If you make lots of money be it on your conscience. What I hope you do Is see your tenabts as a customer and not a inconvenience. I personally can't be a landlord but if we sell under right to buy we must be aware that 71% of ex council houses resold are privately let. The other point to make is that notice periods are going to be extended permentaly. Pre covid notices of 8 weeks are not long enough to find alternative housing and scrape up another forward rent and deposit. On that point I take no excuses My children hated being moved so much and it effected their mental health. Every spring we had to find a new home as the rental was offered for sale around Easter time . We are now in a position to buy again and as we are downsizing we will not have so much compettion from London escapees. If you are a landlord be a decent one. A home is the foundation of humanity (see Maslow).

It's my pension as I won't be be getting much else from state , the Small profit is much needed family budget
I look after my tenants really well and haven't put the rent up in 6 years
I've done a few alternative jobs to pay my bills but can't do them now I've got kids
What about all the do this suits, a nice family is happily living there if you had the money you would do it too or fomenting similar , do you hate all money making ?

I typed on my phone. Please excuse typos- not wine night!

My husband lets out the house he had before he moved in with me, he doesn’t make a lot of income from it, but needs to keep it as he is self employed and can’t afford to invest in a pension pot.