Greed of ‘buy to let’

[LittleLottieChaos]

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

I am trying to save up to buy a small buy to let because I couldn’t afford to buy a home big enough for my family. Once I have paid the mortgage off through renting it to someone else, I will have a home to live in in my old age when I retire. I am not wanting to make a profit particularly, just ensure I am not homeless when I can no longer afford rent. Seems reasonable to me.

I can’t buy because I left a financially abusive relationship and my ex h has trashed my credit rating. I can’t get a mortgage no matter how much I save.

I am so grateful to my BTL landlord. He has been amazing to provide me with a tenancy at a reasonable rent so that I could leave that relationship and have somewhere to live.

It would be great if there was more social housing provision but that is not the fault of BTL landlords.

The problem is not people who buy to let it's the whole British idea that for some reason everyone should own their own home. On the continent, renting is far more acceptable in the UK. I have friends in their 60s in Italy who have rented all their lives and see no reason to stop doing so. Of course the difference is that they have a decently organised and regulated rental market.

Some BTL landlords may neglect their houses however I take exception to people saying BTL landlords are lazy!

Tenant has locked themselves out after a mix up with wife over who had the key at 1am after he finishes his A&E shift. One phone call & husband is driving spare key round instantly

Boiler has dropped pressure. One text message & im there at 6:30am in the loft getting the boiler to work again

Repainting the whole house and cleaning carpets in the evening whilst also working so the house is as nice as it can be for new tenants, putting milk, beer & Prosecco in fridge, being there while new carpets are being laid

Tenant wants to put fairy lights high up, do we have any ladders they can borrow? Yes, I’ll drop them round - oh and while I’m here I have a tip booking tomorrow do you want me to take that stuff?

Catch isn’t working on washing machine (we know your 3 year old broke it) two visits & new catch in 48 hours

It’s not lazy, it’s a job I choose to be on call for 24/7.

@impossible

I fully agree with you and think the buy to let has been so encouraged that many people will never live in secure housing. This is entenches inequality and is awful. It began when Thatcher sold off council houses and didn't allow councils to build more, with the effect that people who couldnt afford to buy property then paid higher rent to cover landlords' mortgages (in contrast to council rents which are regulated).

I think the only solution is stronger rights for renters and fair rents. As things stand landlords can charge anything they choose and renters can be moved on every six months.

Those of us who have been fortunate enough to buy through good luck, hard work and living at the right time in the right place will find our children cannot get on the housing ladder, even on a decent salary. Unless of course they inherit significant deposits, which further entrenches inequality.

This. ^

than in the UK

I agree OP. We did rent out my DH's property while we were renting ourselves and then bought our own place together. We kept it for a couple of years but ultimately I couldn't justify profiting and owning two homes when we only need one with the housing market the way it is. It does push up prices and rent for everyone and leads to families struggling to afford to buy. I have close relatives who rent out properties they bought to live in but then moved on and kept them to rent. One seems to consider themselves a socialist without really examining their actions with regard to that property.

We ended up with one when me and DH got together. Rented it out as social housing. Rent only just covered the mortgage. DH is self employed. We kept the house as his pension. I don’t think we are bad people. A family who couldn’t afford to buy a house had a lovely home for a while. I wouldn’t judge people by one aspect of their lives.

I love renting, anything needs doing the landlord does it. I get housing benefit as I am on low income. Never wanted to own property too much hassle

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)
The only reason you can rent is because someone else has been willing to buy to let, (unless you’re in social housing). You defeat your own argument.
It’s a myth that all landlords are greedy profiteers.

I agree with you despite having been a landlord myself (it's not as easy as it looks). Houses should be for living in not for profit but if an opportunity comes your way for a pension fund BTL or extra money it's up to people to take that on. Not all landlords are bad by the way. If people really didn't like this system and wanted change then they should have voted for corbyn but they didn't did they...

I’m not sure if I’m missing something, but you rent. If no one bought a house to let you’d be homeless.

I always find these discussions very interesting... landlords vilified etc.... btw I'm not a landlord and rented for many years....... but I'm always led to the same question...
Why do we hate landlords and the people we pay for the roof over our heads so much, and not the supermarkets etc where we buy food? Food, also essential, has been turned into a commodity .... from the most basic unbranded, through the fanciest and most expensive..

I have a property I rent out. It's the only property i own. It's rented because I needed to move and couldn't sell it at the time. Plenty of people are landlords from necessity rather than desire. With no landlords the market would be flooded with properties that no one wanted/could afford and renters would have no where to live. There are some people who no matter the cost couldn't afford to get a mortgage for lots of reasons.

Love the Thatcher blame. Labour didn't change a thing. Oh and her government built more council houses a year than the Blair/Brown lot did during their entire time in office.

I digress. To be brutally honest what's the difference between btl landlords and housing associations? Look at the salaries of the top brass. Doubt many landlords see that. But it's the axe to grind on here. Don't have it yourself equals it's wrong.

Can we also address the fact that social housing is not a dream
You move into an undecorated, cheaply built, carpetless, damp, basic fixture & fitting box.

There is a market for people who want a “service” and landlords are providing that

I work in social housing. My rental house is a world away from what we let to tenants but the rent is a couple of £100 a month more
I look at what we rent out to social housing & honestly if I moved into that in a fragile state it would tip me over the edge.

What I rent out & the working tenants I rent it to does not make me feel uncomfortable.
What my city rents to vulnerable people does.

Why do I need to provide a carbon monoxide detector to rent my house out but my city council doesn’t?

@Socksey

I always find these discussions very interesting... landlords vilified etc.... btw I'm not a landlord and rented for many years....... but I'm always led to the same question... Why do we hate landlords and the people we pay for the roof over our heads so much, and not the supermarkets etc where we buy food? Food, also essential, has been turned into a commodity .... from the most basic unbranded, through the fanciest and most expensive..

Why do we hate landlords? Many reasons.... So many don't allow pets So many don't respond to repairs... Letting agents have rules about how much you have to earn too afford the house... Just to name a few...

We could have bought to let at many times over the past 20 years but have refused to do so on ethical grounds.

I agree with you that it's been one of the reasons housing prices have gone out of control. However, it ultimately traces back to the legislation that enabled it - the assured shorthold tenancy that Thatcher brought in.

@purpleme12 ok but what if someone does allow pets & does respond to repairs instantly & is willing to give someone with a CCJ a chance after meeting them
Are they still the devil?

@Mummadeze

I am trying to save up to buy a small buy to let because I couldn’t afford to buy a home big enough for my family. Once I have paid the mortgage off through renting it to someone else, I will have a home to live in in my old age when I retire. I am not wanting to make a profit particularly, just ensure I am not homeless when I can no longer afford rent. Seems reasonable to me.

That's very reasonable, and sensible; you will also be providing housing for someone else in the meantime.

Make sure you have reputable agents to manage the letting for you.

There's nothing wrong with renting, especially for young people. Who wants the responsibility of repairs to the leaking roof, etc, when they are young? They can also pack up and go more easily.

As people get older, settle down with a partner and want to have children, or have a child, it is quite natural to want to own your own home. Most people aim to have that, be it ever so humble. However if they cannot achieve it, they need somewhere decent to rent.

My first house was little bigger than a dog kennel and was falling apart. I have to say I wouldn't recommend that to anyone and would never go through it again, it was a nightmare. However the nightmare ended eventually, we sold up and moved somewhere better.

Lol I haven't said they're the devil

"20:01Wink182

I’m not sure if I’m missing something, but you rent. If no one bought a house to let you’d be homeless."

Super naive and simplistic views like this make my blood boil. Landlords have bought up the housing stock, meaning there is less to go round for buyers and inflating prices. They are not "creating" any housing, they are simply hoarding it for themselves then renting it for a profit. There is absolutely no motive other than to make money for themselves, so don't try to portray landlords as having some kind of social conscience.

Housing in most parts of the world is not a commodity like coffee or sugar, it's a basic human right. We should have been much more protective over that right, because we now have a younger generation doomed to poverty and insecurity. But hey - "I'm alright Jack" eh?

I have far less of a problem with BTL than I do with second home owners who leave a house empty for 9 months plus of the year and turn rural/coastal areas in to ghost villages.

One of the biggest beneficiaries of the stamp duty holiday has been wealthy second home buyers. It’s disgraceful.

@purpleme12 ok, hate them then

I’ve got a London home and a holiday home and one house & one flat which we rent. The people we rent to are not ever going to buy property in the U.K. and won’t get social housing as single men. We’re good landlords, some people need or like to rent.