Greed of ‘buy to let’

[LittleLottieChaos]

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

My DP is in the army & we will soon be posted away from home. We will possibly be back in 2 years so will not be selling the house. We may be gone a lot longer. Rent will be in line with local rates and this takes into account fees to an agent so they can look after the property in our absence (we may go abroad) & any contingency for repairs etc. This is very common in the military community as selling on a property for sometimes only a short time, is very impractical, when someone could be living in it that may not be in a position, or want to buy for many reasons. People rent rather than buy for various reasons. Yes absolutely there are people out there that cause problems for locals pushing them out of the market in their home towns. That isn't the case for all.

Hard to save a 15% deposit when paying inflated prices on rent so you can cover someone else’s mortgages! We recently bought but because we were gifted a deposit - we are a family and earn good money but paying £1000 plus rent made saving deposit money impossible!

@NC4THISS

money rarely comes from 'working hard

Keep telling yourself that, whilst you don’t work hard.

The less work you do just opens up space for someone else to take that opportunity.

Wow. Many people work two jobs just to afford a room in a shared house or to feed their children. Don’t they work ‘ hard’ enough for you?

I think if landlords provide a good, clean home at a fairly reasonable rent there is nothing wrong with that.

Unfortunately there are, from what I have read, far too many landlords who are renting out sub-standard and often dangerous property and charging exorbitant rents - that is what I would call greedy.

If nearly all the council houses hadn't been sold off and proper provision made for enough council housing to meet the needs of people who cannot get a mortgage, we wouldn't be in this awful situation. On top of everything else, it appears that the council and housing association homes remaining are often not being properly maintained either.

I think there should be some kind of rent control and better monitoring of privately rented homes.

@LipstickLou I’m sorry you & your family went through this, it’s indeed harmful for mental health to move a lot, moving house is as stressful as grieving after a death for most people. It might sound dramatic but the science says this, not me.

@Moomin12345 Greed is good & greed is God. There’s a big conflict of interest with our government & housing ‘crisis’ - it’s in the interest of current owners to keep the crisis going so as to keep the prices infinitely rising

[quote AutomaticMoon]@Insertfunnyname you’re joking, right? Rents charged are double the mortgages! Why should renters pay double what owners pay? And re: calling the landlord to fix a hole. Absolute garbage, I live in a rotten & falling apart listed building & the landlord does 0 maintenance or fixing. Absolutely disgusting. I am disabled & work as a care worker for pay less than what cleaners & retails staff get, I have 0 help or benefits from the government & NHS, yet I have to line the pockets of morally bankrupt people like you.[/quote]
It really is better to go to an estate agent to find a rental property, they organise repairs and replacements and take the cost out of the rent. It's all in the contract. It is also easier for the landlord who can leave the management of the property in the agent's hands for a very reasonable fee.

I'm so sorry your accommodation is unsatisfactory, I know I would hate that too but surely you can find somewhere better? Have a look on Rightmove, visit your local estate agents. If you've been a reliable tenant and have regular, permanent work, you will be able to provide good references with no problem.

Good luck, I do hope things improve for you.

Going through a letting agent doesn't mean they'll get the work done
Ours needs a new door and the fence panels have fallen down they've never done this. It's because the landlord doesn't want to. We're through a letting agents

Letting agents don't need any qualifications or specific training. No real regulations either.

They're often worse for tenants than dealing with landlords direct.

In fact, some are known to rip off and lie to both landlord and tenant.

One well known trick is when a lease is up for renewal, agents will issue the no fault eviction notice if the tenant refuses to sign a new contract. Lots prefer to let it continue as a periodic tenancy.

They tell the landlord the tenant wants to leave. This is because the agents get a fee if a new contract is signed. It's even better if the tenant moves out because the fee is much bigger for getting a new tenant in.

That's another area of housing that needs better regulation.

have regular permanent work

And this is one of the major issues with the current setup. People too ill to work or who are struggling to find work (not uncommon particularly during the pandemic) are left with nowhere to live. Except for those illegal or should be illegal shit holes.

The discrimination against housing benefits and low waged (and, in increasing cases, against children or single people or pets) needs to end.

Also, welfare housing benefits need to be increased to meet the cost of renting.

@NoBetterthanSheShouldBe

I don’t think buy to let is bad, it’s not taking homes of the market. Second homes ownership and holiday letting of liveable properties is despicable.

I think 'second home' owning and holiday letting are two very different things. Having a second home and leaving it empty for most of the year and just using it at the owners' whim, is morally wrong and a totally different thing to owning and letting a property for holiday lets. Holiday lets provide holiday accommodation, which in turn brings people and money into an area, which relies heavily on tourism for jobs and keeping the local economy buoyant. I do think there should be quotas though on the amount of properties given over to holiday letting.

@Maggiesfarm Thank you for the suggestion, I can’t move though. I live in a small town in Cornwall, I have physical & mental illness & ASD but don’t drive, my current home is a short walk from the care home where I do the night shifts only because of bullying on day shifts. I’m alone at night. My mother died last month from covid after fighting cancer for years. I couldn’t even be with her because of covid but also lack of money, she was in another country. I have Interstitial Cystitis which is chronic cystitis that never goes away, I wake up every hr to pee & the sleep deprivation is killing me. My neighbour downstairs slam the doors so hard it shakes my bed & scares me & my dog. I wish I could move but there is 0 on the market that I can afford. My mother left me £50k because she sold her house yet I can’t get a mortgage because of minimum income. And British Gas have added incorrect defaults for every month since I closed the account with them 2 years ago that they refuse to remove so I have to take them to court to clear my name. Lenders don’t take into consideration that the rent I’ve been paying for years on time is less than the mortgage would be. So the money my mother worked so incredibly hard for is just losing value & probably will end up in some inhumane landlord’s pocket. The only way is for me to move up north but my partner’s family is here, this is why we moved here, to be near his parents. But it’s the only solution, although it’s not exactly fair that people have to leave the only support system they have just to find affordable shelter. Sorry for the incoherence, I can barely function from sleep deprivation.

You have to find a reputable estate agent, often part of a nationwide or regional chain, who sell properties, also manage lettings for landlords. They will vet the landlords as well as prospective tenants.

Automatic Moon, that is terribly sad. I wish I could do something to help you.

I'm so sorry @AutomaticMoon

That's the point I made earlier in this thread. It's something that's repeatedly ignored by successive governments.

A lot of people have large deposits but lower incomes. Government 'help to buy' keep on inflating the bubble schemes, like the latest 95% mortgage one, only make matters worse. It pushes up house prices even further out of reach.

@Maggiesfarm aw, thank you most kindly, I don’t really talk to anyone IRL since doing nights, so kind words on mumsnet mean the world to me & I am very grateful for I just wish the system wasn’t so corrupt & structurally violent

@Tealightsandd Bless your heart & thank you, what you say is exactly right. Don’t you think the current system is corrupt because of the conflict of interests? It’s in the interest of the people in charge of fixing the problem to not fix it. Or am I imagining this?

Rents don’t just cover mortgage repayments.

I think we would be in a lot worse position if Thatcher hadn’t got rid of the legislation around rental properties.

I don’t think many people can imagine queuing to get a chance to rent a dump and paying 75% of your wages to do so and being grateful you had secured yourself a place to live.
I remember wanting a place that was in an area I might not get murdered and with an extra job I could afford. What it looked like was immaterial as there wasn’t that much choice.
Yes there are some slum properties that are unfit to be let out but that seemed to be the majority that I saw.
Whilst on paper you were more secure in not being asked to leave. Some landlords if they wanted you out they got you out by strong arm tactics.

I am not sure whether rent control was a double edged sword.
Whilst it did keep rents low I do know some people who were so in fear of losing their rent controlled rooms/flats that they not only over the years paid out so much in rent (even really low rents of £60 per month) that they could have bought 3 flats but they never moved on with their life and live very sad lives. All are in their 60s and 70s now and whilst always being in a position to buy a flat as they all had good jobs one couldn’t be torn away from his rented room. Passing families bringing their shopping into their flats whilst he passes on the way to the bathroom wearing his dressing gown and slippers and clutching a towel and wash bag or toilet roll is just sad.

The problem with rocketing rents is because governments have come up with various ways to penalise landlords.
Taking away mortgage interest tax relief was ridiculous and was never going to reduce rents or flood the market with cheap houses.
I remember watching a news programme where renters were rubbing their hands together with glee for getting one over on the landlords. Thinking that they would all sell up and the FTBs would have their pick of cheap properties
Whilst a few landlords sold up most landlords either put the rents up to cover the tax they now had to pay or got rid of the tenant and turned the house or flat into holiday lets. That way they could put their mortgage interest against their tax bill. Less rental properties = higher rents.

@Tealightsandd

have regular permanent work

And this is one of the major issues with the current setup. People too ill to work or who are struggling to find work (not uncommon particularly during the pandemic) are left with nowhere to live. Except for those illegal or should be illegal shit holes.

The discrimination against housing benefits and low waged (and, in increasing cases, against children or single people or pets) needs to end.

Also, welfare housing benefits need to be increased to meet the cost of renting.

I agree with you about benefits.

Those who are chronically sick or disabled should go to the top of social housing lists.What use is a welfare state if it does not care for the welfare of the most vulnerable in society?

I've seen so many of these threads pop up lately and I always come to the conclusion there is just not enough social housing, and that exacerbates the housing problem from all angles.

I live in a country where there is a very low level of ownership and a much greater proportion of the population rent. Properties are usually owned by people or companies who rent as their sole income. In the cities they buy up larger homes and turn them into smaller apartments to turn more profits. It means there is nothing left for families to rent or buy.

That's why, despite having a very high household income, we are eligible for social housing, which is being built at a rapid pace, and is protected as family housing. There is social housing that targets high earners. The rents are high but acceptable for the target income. The area is built to be "nice", with beautiful gardens, maintenance, and for every new site they build a childcare setting. The waiting list is a few years so a high income family will need to apply once the plot has been decided and then wait for it to be built.

There are then other social housing areas that are built "less nice" but they target the lower/zero income bracket. That system might seem unfair - but housing is there for everyone (albeit at a wait).

There are also rent caps in some cities. And if you buy a property and don't live there for at least 5 years before renting it, they tax the shit out of you.

Things still are far from perfect but the social housing gives people at least some options.

In the UK it just seems like a free for all. Everyone battling to get on the property ladder because what other choice is there - just pay extortionate rents to a crappy landlord for the rest of your life and not even be able to put pictures up on your own walls. If you have to apply for social housing then the world looks down on you like some sort of scrounged or failure rather than recognizing the fact that there is nowhere to live and that the government do need to step in at some point.

@Lostatsea1988

AutomaticMoon I might be an inhumane and morally bankrupt landlord according to you but I'm going to enjoy a very comfortable retirement and not end up in your position so I guess I win?

Seriously get a grip of yourself.

And this is why so many people think buy to letters are a disgrace. Lost.

AutomaticMoon my heart goes out to you, this situation is unfair and you are not to blame, you work hard in a tough job and are appreciated by many. Not being able to afford a home because of these greedy, lazy, parasites is not your fault.

If we're cool with calling landlords parasites are we cool with calling people like AutomaticMoon benefit scroungers?

Yeah I thought not.

If you're the kind of bitter, chippy bigot who thinks it's fine to make sweeping generalisations based on your own narrow experiences sorry but you deserve your lot in life.

I won't lose sleep over you.

@cookie4640

If I were in the position to own a buy to let I wouldn’t think twice. Call me selfish, but yes I’d want to make money. I want to own 5 houses in total, one for myself and hubby and then one each for our four children to have as a starter that they can use to either live in or to generate an income from. I don’t even own one house yet but we are working hard to achieve our goals. Very, very hard. We work so many hours, so if we can profit from it then why not? I doubt a lot of people work as hard as we do, and currently we are trapped renting but one day I know we will get there!

With your hard attitude, i know you'll get there too!

We have a lot of B2L's now, but we started out with nothing and the trick we used was reconfiguring flats - i.e. turning a large kitchen with a window in to a smaller internal kitchen and the half with the window in to another bedroom - you can add thousands on to the value that way - we literally bought, did up, sold, did up.

Best of luck!