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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Greed of ‘buy to let’

961 replies

LittleLottieChaos · 28/04/2021 07:34

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

OP posts:
Alwayscalminacrisis · 29/04/2021 18:07

I have been a Mumsnet lurker for years but had to rejoin to comment on this.
I have been a renter and a homeowner and then back to being a tenant on benefits before a big change in circumstances and now both a homeowner and landlord. I would say I have a huge experience of both sides of this argument. DH and I own multiple BTL properties. I am proud to say we are very good landlords: licensed, honest, caring about our tenants. I am not saying there are not bad apples, I know there are. However, I simply don’t think there is anything wrong in making an income from providing good quality homes to people who for many reasons choose or have to rent.
We are not selfish, exploitative or any of the other appalling things that have been said on this thread. We are not responsible for people’s inability to access mortgages either. Where most of our properties are situated, two earners on a very modest income could raise a good mortgage for a house. If people choose not to, for whatever reason, I don’t believe it’s because landlords hold all the housing stock 🤷‍♀️

jenkel · 29/04/2021 18:21

When dh and I first got together we rented, suited us perfectly at that time in our lives. We had just moved to an area that we didn’t know, new relationship so didn’t want to go into it buying straight away, also couldn't afford it. We had a dirt cheap rental and did slum it for a bit but it was fine, just us and no kids, managed to save money for a deposit and eventually bought somewhere. I certainly didn’t resent the landlord.

However, 2nd home owners a different story. Potentially, having a house which a good percentage of the year stands empty, that’s damaging.

cookie4640 · 29/04/2021 18:24

If I were in the position to own a buy to let I wouldn’t think twice. Call me selfish, but yes I’d want to make money. I want to own 5 houses in total, one for myself and hubby and then one each for our four children to have as a starter that they can use to either live in or to generate an income from. I don’t even own one house yet but we are working hard to achieve our goals. Very, very hard. We work so many hours, so if we can profit from it then why not? I doubt a lot of people work as hard as we do, and currently we are trapped renting but one day I know we will get there!

Ilovewolfblass · 29/04/2021 18:25

I have had 6 BTLs for 15years. You just sound bitter.

QueenBee70 · 29/04/2021 18:28

@Tealightsandd

Some relatively simple immediate things that would help the situation.

A) Private landlords when it's someone moving in with a partner/getting married/needing more space for a growing family renting out their old flat/house.

The above is not so terrible, so long as they're reasonable with rent levels, accept benefits (government needs to increase benefit amounts), do timely repairs, don't go overboard with too frequent intrusive inspections (not a thing when I rented in the 90s).

B) Private landlords through inheritance. As with A).

C) People looking to 'invest', competing against first time buyers, pushing up the prices, buying one home after another.
That's a big no.

D) Increase housing benefit levels to market rent. Explicitly ban discrimination (and against students, families with children, pets, etc).

E) Security of tenure. Ban no fault evictions - but make it easier for landlords to evict genuine problem tenants, i.e. wrecking the home, serious anti social behaviour, wilful refusal to pay the rent, etc.

D) and E) would be a major part of the key to helping ensure the success of A) and B) without doing too much damage to individuals, families, and society.

Finally,

F) Raise interest rates. Stop encouraging debt and the unsustainable house price bubble, and stop punishing savers (those saving for deposits, pensions, or disabled safety net).

G) Build more social housing (and end right to buy in England).

Will all or any of this happen? I don't know but it should.

I’d vote for you !

Do you have any plans to stand for prime minister. If you don’t then you should 😉

GraceQuirrel · 29/04/2021 18:34

@ImInStealthMode

I had the same rant elsewhere just recently. I live in a place where the average family house price is over £500k and rents on a 2 bedroom flat can exceed £2000 a month. It's madness, and yet we have 'professional landlords' snapping up new builds left and right, reducing the available property, forcing up prices and THEN charging rents that make it impossible to save a deposit.

Often those same landlords ban pets and children from their properties because they don't want the hassle, yet they are a large part of the reason that families with kids have to rent!

Someone in the discussion compared it to hoarding any other basic human need (access to clean water for example) and then profiteering by selling it on at big mark ups to those who can't afford to buy the access themselves. That wouldn't be acceptable, so why is it when it comes to shelter?

Appreciate that there are also bad tenants that landlords need protection against, by the way, but for everyone there is an unscrupulous landlord creaming profits off the hardship of others.

You well and truly hit the nail on the head there. Money goes to money as my mum always said. Those without it will never be able to progress.
Scoobydoobydo · 29/04/2021 18:38

What is wrong with making an honest living?
What is wrong with investing in property
Like another person on here we rent to students and nurses who don't want to buy.
They click their fingers and we come running to sort out any issues they have.
They are happy and so are we

5566rfghh · 29/04/2021 18:44

Who gives people the right to profit from food, healthcare etc etc, all necessities just like housing. What do you work as, most jobs can be linked to profiteering of "people less fortunate".... Sorry but to be honest, this is life. What's your solution, that people only be allowed to own one house at a time? What about the people that need / want to rent.

EvilPea · 29/04/2021 18:47

As someone said upthread it’s the game not the players that’s the problem.

Look how many people on this thread have more than one property? I’m not saying they are bad people, and every single person has a good reason to be landlords.
However the group culminating result is what we have now.

EvilPea · 29/04/2021 18:47

Another vote for @Tealightsandd

impossible · 29/04/2021 18:48

I fully agree with you and think the buy to let has been so encouraged that many people will never live in secure housing. This is entenches inequality and is awful. It began when Thatcher sold off council houses and didn't allow councils to build more, with the effect that people who couldnt afford to buy property then paid higher rent to cover landlords' mortgages (in contrast to council rents which are regulated).

I think the only solution is stronger rights for renters and fair rents. As things stand landlords can charge anything they choose and renters can be moved on every six months.

Those of us who have been fortunate enough to buy through good luck, hard work and living at the right time in the right place will find our children cannot get on the housing ladder, even on a decent salary. Unless of course they inherit significant deposits, which further entrenches inequality.

QueenBee70 · 29/04/2021 18:50

5566rfghh There used to be social housing for the people that couldn’t afford to buy . First time buyers that could afford it usually started at the cheaper end of the market . These properties are now being bought up by landlords so they are priced out of the market .

LGY1 · 29/04/2021 18:59

@vivainsomnia your second paragraph is me!
I bought a house ten years ago on my own. (Northern, lived at home to save deposit)
7 years later after husband & child we wanted somewhere bigger. Left the minimum equity in & used rest of equity for current house
I’ve had 3 sets on tenants in 3 years.
Upon exit tenants 1 & 2 both commented that we were the best landlords they have ever had.
Tenants 3 look set to stay, they only moved because current landlord was selling.

We did it up to standards that we wanted to live in. Any issues we are straight on them.

  1. Because I couldn’t sleep knowing someone didn’t have heating etc
  2. We want to keep the house nice & in modern condition

We both work so after tax & annual charges we don’t break even. However I’m in it for the long run & basically hoping for the house price to rise over years and years

Butterfly44 · 29/04/2021 18:59

All over the world there is property to rent. I don't see what your problem is. I rented as a student, I rent Airbnb's when I go on holiday. You can buy/rent/hire almost any commodity not just housing. I don't go thinking 'how selfish of them'

mylifestory · 29/04/2021 19:02

I have a second house i inherited, did up to the nines and rent to young professionals. They could afford to rent their own 1 bed flat but dont want to live alone so live with ppl like them. They are free to get up and go at a months notice, they dont want to buy, they are young and like to be free, jobs move, ppl move. I am sure some of them could buy their own place and half of mine do when they are ready. I am the best landlord, they have the best house at a decent price. I see myself as providing a service. Nowt wrong with that!

bloodynamechangethe3rd · 29/04/2021 19:02

@LittleLottieChaos

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

We've got a BTL property, but it wasn't intended for that purpose, we decided to rent it out when I got pregnant with our third baby and we had already moved into my house, we lived separately, however, last tax year we made a profit of £79, we paid a higher rate of tax on it, and I didn't offset any expenses AT ALL. It's a large 3 bed terrace and is priced £200 under the average rental for the area pcm as we didn't decide to rent it to profit from it, we've had people take advantage of our kind nature and trash it but we've now had the same, lovely, tenants in for 3 years and they're extremely happy there. I hope they stay.
Jhjhjh3 · 29/04/2021 19:04

We own a buy to let. We bought it 15 years ago and are paying a repayment mortgage. The income from the house pays the mortgage and repairs , maintenance etc.i. In 15 years we have put the rent up once, by £25 a month ( advised by letting agents). We have been advised regularly to raise the rent, but we have good tenants, and want to keep them happy. They said they needed new carpets and we sent round the carpet guy with samples for them to choose within our budget. Our tenets give us respect and we give it back to them. If in the future we have to sell , they would have first refusal

Mirw · 29/04/2021 19:05

We need private landlords but it depends on what type of let the landlord has. I live in a close (tenement in Scotland). There is only one flat out of 7 which is owner occupier. I am a sitting tenant - my partner has lived here for over 50 years. Our current landlord is a trust fund... The other flats are 4 Houses if Multiple Occupancy... Students (ratbags the lot if them. Parents should have to take them home and educate them on living in same area as strangers) and an illegal Airbnb. When I complain, I am told that I should move!!!! No. These short term tenants and their landlords need more regulations. ASBOs are not working!

Lifestyleinlondon88 · 29/04/2021 19:06

I’m here you’ll find A LOT of people doing this so these threads never go down well. But you are right, it is down to greed and laziness. It’s the ease of copping a few hundred quid off someone needing a roof over their houses.

I don’t agree with the whole ‘they need somewhere to live and I’m providing it’ - they would have somewhere to live if the prices hadn’t gone up so much and made worse by people like yourselves.

I think two properties per adult/couple is more than enough.

Go invest in something that isn’t basic necessity - or charge a good price.

Greed has taken over the role with most things sadly. And the people who are greedy, will never acknowledge it because then they would lose out.

eeyore228 · 29/04/2021 19:08

@DinosaurDiana I private rent and you're correct I don't have a deposit but that's because my rent is extortionate. It's over half my salary. Caught in the rent trap now. I can afford a mortgage but can't afford the deposit.

Silkal · 29/04/2021 19:10

You sound very bitter, OP.
I’m a landlord who endeavoured to keep the rents low to give others a chance. I’ve been thanked by tenants trashing the property. I now have decent tenants who let me know if there is a problem, and they are secure in the knowledge that I will sort the problem out immediately.

I’ve yet to make any sort of profit because of the cost of refurbishing after previous tenants have wrecked the property.

NaughtyButNice · 29/04/2021 19:10

My ds is at uni, without landlords he would be stuck in halls.

Maggiesfarm · 29/04/2021 19:11

impossible:

I think the only solution is stronger rights for renters and fair rents. As things stand landlords can charge anything they choose and renters can be moved on every six months.
........
I'm not sure that landlords can charge anything they want. If the rent was too high, nobody would want it! I've looked around Rightmove at rentals in various areas and each area seems to have a pretty standard rent.

One example, a London Borough, fare zone 5, good transport links, pleasant but ordinary area, mainly residential, decent high street with restaurants, villagey atmosphere :
2 bed properties to let for between £1,150-1,250 pcm.
I saw no variations on those prices. They looked like nice places too.

I did the same, looking at a small market town in East Anglia and the rents were nearly all £750 pcm (salaries are lower there of course).

I just wanted to show that landlords can't ask for more than what is usual for an area.

I daresay there are owners in places like Holland Park and Knightsbridge who charge the earth to millionaires, Arabs and the like, to whom it is small change, but they are hardly average.

At the moment you have to give a tenant six months notice to leave a property. That gives them time to find somewhere else.

Cyw2018 · 29/04/2021 19:13

I'm a BTL landlord because I was unable to sell my previous house and move where I needed to be. I'm a good landlord and use a really good local letting agent to manage my property.

I'd love to sell it but once tenants are in don't believe it is right to try. First tenants were in for 5 years and at the time that they gave noticed various government funded green energy improvements were talking place in the village (with no real time schedule laid out) which meant I couldn't really market the house then so I took new tenants. These tenants have expressed an interest to buy and I've offered it to them at a really good price, unfortunately this was a few weeks before the latest lockdown so nothing has happened (I assume concern about job security). Looking on Rightmove the other day it is clear I could probably sell it from under them in an instant and at a better price than i offered it to them, but I won't because that is a shitty thing to do as they rented it in good faith (a good friend who is a single mum to a toddler is having exactly this done to her currently after less than a year in the property and it makes me so angry).

LGY1 · 29/04/2021 19:14

I can only comment on the area of the country live in - northern city.

I bought my house 10 years ago with a deposit of £12,500. Now the same house, which I rent out, would need a deposit of &17,500
Is it really that different 10 years later?
My first tenants moved out at the end of the first year because they were moving into a help to buy, shared equity new build. Probably something like 5% deposit (good on them)

One of my friends has moved around a lot, always renting, she now has a child & will stay in her current house (private rented) Even if she got a lump sum for deposit she has no interest in buying & maintaining a house

Second friend, council tenant, through various luck is in a very expensive house on a non council street. Could do right to buy but again has no interest in spending her disposable income on house maintenance & would rather spend the money on long haul holidays (her words)

Not everyone wants to buy & in my experience some people have more disposable income renting than saving a deposit & spending thousands and thousands on house renovations

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