Greed of ‘buy to let’

[LittleLottieChaos]

When did people start to think that they should profit from housing? It all feels incredibly Dickensian. Pees me off when I see housing being listed as buy to let investments rather than ‘here’s a house for a nice young family to live in’. Especially with the market so horribly skewed right now.

It is shocking that people seem to think they have a right to profiteer from those less fortunate by whacking on high rents, that more than cover their mortgages. Legit: you need one house, one house only. Or maybe I’m missing something... or these are genuinely just bad people.

Interested to hear how people justify it? Do you just think, fuck ‘em I want to be rich? Do you not think about the morality?

(I rent but am saving to buy an appropriate house to live in... not to profiteer from)

MadeinMarch (and others) Deliberately did not mention Landlords in my post, but wanted to make the same point as this poster, not making a comparison between renting and mortgage.

The fact banks claim you can't afford a £600/month mortgage when you've been paying £800/month rent is an absolute shitshow.

Rest assured gra

Precisely. There is a definite lack of understanding. Like every situation is the same!

[quote oldwhyno]freakonomics.com/podcast/rent-control/[/quote]
This is a great discussion of the topic of rent control. Rent control in NYC made rents higher for most people until they relaxed the rules. There are still people living in flats paying a tiny percentage of the market rates, so those apartments never come onto the market.

F) Raise interest rates. Stop encouraging debt and the unsustainable house price bubble, and stop punishing savers (those saving for deposits, pensions, or disabled safety net).

Since interest rates are the primary mechanism for encouraging economic growth (lowering them) or curbing demand to control inflation (raising them), using them to influence the housing market would be like using a bazooka to kill a mouse.

What's your solution then MisconductUS?

Increasing numbers of people condemned to a lifetime of precarious housing, never able to settle, children constantly uprooted from home and school?

Low waged, disabled, and vulnerable live in homeless tent cities - like in America?

Tealightsandd Yes, I agree with all your points.

The greedy, lazy buy to letters on this thread are an excellent example of the problem.

They need to retire early, they need to make sure their children have a home (because they have such a low hope of their children becoming independent adults).

They really, really don't care about others who have no secure homes and are expected to work to 67 to facilitate their greed.

I equate them to the sort of people who drive giant SUV's because when they hit someone in a small car, they will kill them and escape harm themselves (two young people near me have been killed by such people).

These people are Jack Alrights and do what is right for themselves rather than what is right.

I hope anger from them here is due guilt?

I never, ever wanted to be a buy to let landlord - but sadly I can't sell my 2 bed, gardenless, top floor flat & it just doesn't work for my family now - having to lug a heavy 2 year old up the stairs. We've had to save enough for a second deposit to buy something closer to my family, along with increased stamp duty & associated hassle I really never wanted to rent out our flat, but no one wants to buy it!

What's your solution then MisconductUS?

Build more housing, obviously.

I have no guilt from working and investing.
Also can we stop with the pitying of certain groups to make you seem kind and caring.
I know of plenty of disabled, long term ill and people on low wages who have managed to own and some of them have property as investments too. Perhaps because instead of moaning and having a 'poor me' attitude they will not let things defeat them.

I have no guilt. I used my post-tax income to invest in property that I let out at market value and keep in very good condition.

@BadAssJackieWeaver

You have convinced me. I am going to evict my tenants. They will be homeless but it’s the right thing to do. I will then sell my property.

I didn’t buy a buy to let but I do rent out my old flat. When I was looking to buy with my DH we couldn’t sell my flat (he sold his, we moved into a bigger house). The market hasn’t been great ever since and so I’ve reluctantly become a landlord. I’d imagine there must be a few other people in this position who bought a property which decreased so much in value they didn’t have a choice. We could’ve lived in the flat I suppose but I was pregnant and DH had a big commute so we did feel like we had to move.

I intend to get a buy to let as soon as we've paid off our mortgage. I have no guilt whatsoever about this. I have a son with SEND and I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to live fully independently. The B2L will be our investment in his future. It may provide him with income one day, or when he's older, he may choose to live there himself. If we had a society where social welfare was truly prioritised and I could be sure he'd be adequately supported once we were no longer around, I'd feel differently. But we live in a society where people vote for parties who prioritise low taxes and a 'every man for himself' attitude. So, I will do whatever I have to do to make sure he's safeguarded not living in squalor when he's an adult.

@BadAssJackieWeaver

Tealightsandd Yes, I agree with all your points.

The greedy, lazy buy to letters on this thread are an excellent example of the problem.

They need to retire early, they need to make sure their children have a home (because they have such a low hope of their children becoming independent adults).

They really, really don't care about others who have no secure homes and are expected to work to 67 to facilitate their greed.

I equate them to the sort of people who drive giant SUV's because when they hit someone in a small car, they will kill them and escape harm themselves (two young people near me have been killed by such people).

These people are Jack Alrights and do what is right for themselves rather than what is right.

I hope anger from them here is due guilt?

An awful lot of sweeping statements there, BadAss.

Very defensive too.

@Dazedandconfused28

I never, ever wanted to be a buy to let landlord - but sadly I can't sell my 2 bed, gardenless, top floor flat & it just doesn't work for my family now - having to lug a heavy 2 year old up the stairs. We've had to save enough for a second deposit to buy something closer to my family, along with increased stamp duty & associated hassle I really never wanted to rent out our flat, but no one wants to buy it!

If nobody wants to buy it you have overpriced it. There are companies that will make you a cash offer for the property or you can auction it. I might buy it myself at the right price.

@Magnificentmug12

Renting is not the problem, it’s the ridiculous amounts of mo way landlords charge!! It’s should be capped to 20% above the mortgage payment

It’s already been said, but a mortgage is not the landlord’s only cost. I mean if you want them to be stingy on repairs and maintenance then this is a very good way to go about it.

I know a number of people with a BTL property where they really struggle to cover costs, especially when you take into account empty periods. There are plenty of landlords making a loss so not sure how they can be considered greedy.

@Dazedandconfused28

I never, ever wanted to be a buy to let landlord - but sadly I can't sell my 2 bed, gardenless, top floor flat & it just doesn't work for my family now - having to lug a heavy 2 year old up the stairs. We've had to save enough for a second deposit to buy something closer to my family, along with increased stamp duty & associated hassle I really never wanted to rent out our flat, but no one wants to buy it!

You won't be a 'buy to let' landlord, you didn't buy your flat with the sole intention of letting it and your mortgage will be different to a buy-to-let one.

Good luck, it sounds as though you have things sorted out for the time being.

I’m not even a landlord @BadAssJackieWeaver but everything you said it just wild.

really don't care about others who have no secure homes and are expected to work to 67 to facilitate their greed.

Why is home ownership about greed?
I don’t think everyone gives things the same amount of importance; when renting (to test the water with DP before buying) I made my own lentil Dahl/couscous recipes and eat nothing but that for months because it meant our shopping bill was £60/m we didn’t go anywhere or do anything for a year, took all the overtime possible just smashed it into a savings account. No phone contracts/tv packages/gym memberships/we had old cars we were by all accounts exhausted but realised the importance of putting our money somewhere where it would be ‘safe’ long term. The housing market is just that.

Some people are just not willing to make sacrifices to get what they want, they’d rather sit back and do nothing and complain about others getting it.

I can’t speak for every person obviously or even a large proportion but I see it, I live in one of the most deprived areas of the country and I see it all around me. I haven’t had any particular easy leg ups from family, they gave us £3k when we moved, which was gratefully received but certainly wasn't a whole deposit or anything and we would have been fine without it from our own savings.

I already have a savings account for DC1, which we intent on using for house deposit in the future. Well do the same for DC 2. Why wouldn’t you want to help your child? Why is growing up and buying a house not seen as independence? Is renting the only true form of independence? It can’t be because that contradicts the rest of your post about fear and not having a stable home.

Some people are investors and look to the future and others keep their lifestyle outgoings matching their incomings so they are always ‘ok’ but never well cushioned.

Truth is you can educate yourself for essentially nothing with student loans; there are also grants available for equipment and living costs should your income be low. Some disabled people can still work, I know lots. They don’t have a ‘woe is me’ attitude they say ‘well I can’t walk so I’ll get a sit down job’ and off they go.. that’s just one example but there are many more.

I see in my own workplace the ones who work 24/7, they’re millionaires now but over the last 25 years they’ve had nothing and have bet their houses on contracts time and time again just to make sure the company stayed afloat and won the big time.. which it did. It’s ok not to want that life, but you can’t turn around and say they’re greedy or awful people because you have absolutely no idea, clearly, how hard they’ve worked for decades to be in that ‘privileged’ position.

Think your view is unreasonable and jealous..no skin off your nose is it.Why shouldent people spend THEIR money on what they want to.Ridiculous view.

Absolutely agree.Ridiculous .

Amen to this OP. I am stuck in rent cycle at 44 and I am so depressed and anxious about it - and before anyone asks, I've worked hard all my life. 20 years were spent in London doing an arts career which is an ok wage anywhere else but a nothing wage in London, so impossible to buy with (especially London prices!) and also incredibly hard to save. I've since moved out of London and have been saving like crazy for about 8 years, but it's hard to get the 20k + deposit together for even the smallest of flats as a single person, whilst paying extortionate rent. When I finally get enough, I find the houses have gone up and it's even more difficult for me to get a mortgage due to my age. People who buy to let disgust me, it is greed, its feathering their own nest egg without thinking about what they actually need and about what other may need also. Second homers do too, unless you use both homes loads don't do it.

I totally agree with you . The main reason for this is a lack of social housing due to council housing being sold off at hugely discounted rates in the 80’s and 90’s and it not being replaced . I know so many people that have been unable to buy their first house / flat in my area because investors are snapping them up and as you say I have seen houses that I would like to buy that are for ‘investors only ‘. I get that there are some factors such as student etc that need to rent but I think if you own more than one property then it should attract higher taxes that could maybe be used towards funding more affordable local authority housing.

There are a few of different issues -

1 there are two markets - housing benefit and multiple person occupation houses, sometimes in a very bad state and in contrast what are probably the one property the mumsnetters who let out have let at market rents eg 1200 a month in London for a flat which tend to be in good condition and do not make much profit if any over the mortgage usually let to people who do not want to stay more than a year.

2 - there is the issue that for people with not much money there are few cheap rentals out there or council housing for them.

1. if more people won two properties and let one out even if we deduce from the numbers the vast numbers who are not wanting to buy even if they could, that means first time buyers who can afford a property might not be able to match a landlord buying for cash or who has a loan but is not in a chain.

I think the two solutions we have is more social housing for the less well off, restrict anyone from that if they earn over say £20k a year - no more £100k union bosses in subsidised places; perhaps have 2 single mothers with a baby in a 2 bed council flat sharing in a way private tenants often have to who are not subsidised by tax payers.

Second solution is more 95% mortgages as it is raising the deposit which is a bit problem for couples in higher priced areas such as where my son bought where a 2 bed terraced house cost £350k

Well, there are no council houses, so where people would live without LL is probably the streets, bunking in with family, or heaven forbid workhouses came back.
We would be in a sorry state without private LL.

I think this is the thing. We need to get away from these statements
We would be in a sorry state without private LL.

They aren’t helpful to solving the problem.
Private landlords aren’t the devil, and renters aren’t charity cases, everyone is just doing their best.
We need to fix the cause.
Firstly social housing, we need more of it. People need stability and to be part of the community no matter where they fit in socioeconomic terms.

The next one, house prices and affordability. But you can’t fix that without screwing people over massively.

@Maggiesfarm I don’t think that’s right. Most home mortgages have a clause that means you need to disclose to the bank if you are no longer resident there and if you rent the property out. They would often move people to a BTL mortgage at that point.