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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

A sexist remark or am I overreacting?

103 replies

temporarychangedusername · 27/04/2021 13:17

I was attending a couple of days ago quite a specialised course (STEM area) and a topic of the importance of communication came up. It is indeed an area where many people lack "softer" skills - i.e. they can do the technical bits, but can't then explain the significance of results to a non-specialist.

The lecturer said "I always say to my students - you need to be able to explain it in such simple terms so that your mum could understand".
It rubbed me the wrong way a little bit. Why not "that your dad could understand"? The audience (as much as I could tell from the online meeting) was indeed young (early 20s) and overwhelmingly male, but there were a few of old hags (and mums) like myself attending as well, and a couple of younger women too.
I am not the one to be mortally offended by any slip of the tongue, but would I be unreasonable to ping a private message to the lecturer to suggest that may be there could be a better analogy he could use next time? Or would it be totally OTT?

OP posts:
Shrivelled · 27/04/2021 14:59

I would send an email saying “I really enjoyed your lecture the other day. One thing that got me thinking afterwards was your comment about being able to explain the topic to mothers. As I’m a mother myself, I wouldn’t need the communication style altered in any way. Is there another demographic that might help me understand your point a bit more clearly?”

I don’t know if you are a mother OP. But as I’m a mother and have seen the prejudice in male dominated industries, I would have to call him up on this. For the sake of the other poor women or mothers who might hear this drivel in future.

FizzyApricot · 27/04/2021 15:03

Is there another demographic that might help me understand your point a bit more clearly?

There's no need for OP to play dumb, we all know what point was being made. Just needs to point out it doesn't help reduce the stereotyping of mums.

Original poster
temporarychangedusername · 27/04/2021 15:07

I don’t know if you are a mother OP. But as I’m a mother and have seen the prejudice in male dominated industries, I would have to call him up on this. For the sake of the other poor women or mothers who might hear this drivel in future.
Yes, I am a mother - my children are younger (I had them relatively later in life), but I could have been a mother to a large % of the audience (as in - it is plausible from the biological point of view, and I would not have been a scandalously young mother either! Grin).
Maybe that's where a bit of my discomfort comes from, with both me and the lecturer coming from (approximately) the same age cohort, which is one generation above the typical student age on this course - but he did not think of himself as a "dad" who needs a simple explanation of the topic.

OP posts:
Original poster
temporarychangedusername · 27/04/2021 15:12

@ThetaSigma

Yes, it’s sexist and yes, there are loads of better examples he could have used. And yes, it does show an unconscious stereotypical view of women. However, do I think this means that he should be written off as “a dick” because he said the wrong thing? No.
No, absolutely, I am not writing him off at all. Otherwise the course is just brilliant. I posted here as I already struggle with a massive impostor syndrome that clouds my judgment - and needed some clear perspective from strangers.
OP posts:
1forAll74 · 27/04/2021 15:15

Young people fail to understand old type humour. and fill their heads with words like sexist and ageist, etc,and give themselves headaches,by complaining about everything these days.

Annasgirl · 27/04/2021 15:18

@LaBellina

You don’t need to defend yourself OP, those here who take women’s rights seriously completely understand how you feel. Disappointing that some here think you’re overreacting. Sexism affects all of us.
Yes I totally agree with this.

YANBU OP.

I remember when I was in Uni first time around (have now completed several degrees) and my friend was studying Quantity Surveying at a college where the majority of students were male (like 99%). Her lecturers constantly berated the 3 female students and was offensive as well as sexist. I was shocked. (I was studying in a pretty "woke" progressive University - in the days when such places were a positive place for change, not like to-day when critical thought has been abandoned). Nothing was done. That was 30 years ago. I cannot believe it is still accepted to openly dismiss women. (not that it ever should have been)

LonstantonSpiceMuseum · 27/04/2021 16:02

The irony - in a lecture on soft skills, really!
It's relevant to the content of the lecture. A huge part of study skills is making sure you don't offend, judge or make assumptions surely?
Absolutely point this out! He's literally teaching people that it's okay.

daretodenim · 27/04/2021 16:32

We're told to write for a non-specialist audience, non-academic audience, or for the general public.

Many options out there that are neither ageist nor sexist.

Is he trying to "connect" with the young'uns?

pigsDOfly · 27/04/2021 16:40

@4PawsGood

Oh I don’t hear is as becoming a mum makes you switch your brain off, just they are less likely to be up to date.

And women are less good at this sort of thing, because they haven’t been encouraged to be interested etc etc. I think it’s a reasonable point.

Women and their fluffy little heads. Of course they're not going to understand anything more technical than how to operate the ironing board.

Sorry, what century are we in again?

Original poster
temporarychangedusername · 27/04/2021 18:04

I remember when I was in Uni first time around (have now completed several degrees) and my friend was studying Quantity Surveying at a college where the majority of students were male (like 99%). Her lecturers constantly berated the 3 female students and was offensive as well as sexist. I was shocked. (I was studying in a pretty "woke" progressive University - in the days when such places were a positive place for change, not like to-day when critical thought has been abandoned). Nothing was done. That was 30 years ago. I cannot believe it is still accepted to openly dismiss women. (not that it ever should have been)
Interestingly, I know someone who is also doing a Quantity Surveying degree now (a career changer later in life), and she has exactly the same experience with respect to the attitude to female students (she's also one of very few women in her year)

OP posts:
Original poster
temporarychangedusername · 27/04/2021 18:05

@1forAll74

Young people fail to understand old type humour. and fill their heads with words like sexist and ageist, etc,and give themselves headaches,by complaining about everything these days.
I am so glad I am not young, this feels very unpleasant.
OP posts:
SophiePie · 27/04/2021 18:37

Yabu

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 27/04/2021 18:41

Absolutely tell him in an email....

Please think of non sexist /non ageist example...

Explain so someone at the bar, with no background in data science, can understand.

I'm the same age as their mums... I have a science background and would most likely understand...

OhGiveUp · 27/04/2021 18:47

No, I wouldn't think it sexist, nor would I have been offended.

KarensChoppyBob · 27/04/2021 18:48

@1forAll74

Young people fail to understand old type humour. and fill their heads with words like sexist and ageist, etc,and give themselves headaches,by complaining about everything these days.
Yes absolutely. That total nut job throwing herself towards the king's horse like that because of her belief in the emancipation of women, what was she thinking? Tsk.

But hang on, hold your horses, (distasteful pun intended) that was over a hundred years ago- and we got the vote.

Sorry, what was your point again? 🤔.

FudgeFlake · 27/04/2021 18:57

Yes it was an utterly thoughtless everyday sexism remark, and you're not over-reacting. And with a nice chunk of ageism added in for good measure!

Gandalfsthong · 27/04/2021 19:03

It was a stupid comment, I’d also email.

notagainmummy · 27/04/2021 19:07

I'd email him. Education is his job, but he also needs educating himself

accentdusoleil · 27/04/2021 19:07

Yes especially as the UK is supposed to be encouraging more girls / women into STEM. Can you not be a mum and understand sTEM?

Idiot

Msmcc1212 · 27/04/2021 19:11

I think I’d get in touch with a gentle nudge to let him know that he needs to be more careful.

Saying that, however, I do feel my brain had deteriorated and I do need things explaining carefully - but don’t tell him that! Smile

Whythesadface · 27/04/2021 19:12

I was often told if you look for reasons to be offended you will find them.
The woke generation victimise themselves.
Instead just call him out at the time, if you stay quiet do it the next time, save your emails for when there really is an issue.
Hey it's my 10 year old who needs it explained, my mum is an engineer.

Brefugee · 28/04/2021 07:26

I was often told if you look for reasons to be offended you will find them.

if you are in the audience for this with those skills, and you are an older woman and mother how are you supposed to take it? People have given several better alternatives and a polite email after the fact is hardly taking offense, it is giving constructive and useful feedback.

LaBellina · 28/04/2021 09:25

@Brefugee

I was often told if you look for reasons to be offended you will find them.

if you are in the audience for this with those skills, and you are an older woman and mother how are you supposed to take it? People have given several better alternatives and a polite email after the fact is hardly taking offense, it is giving constructive and useful feedback.

^^ 💯
swimlittlefishy · 28/04/2021 09:30

Of course its bloody sexist. How old was this man OP? 92?

MAybe it is, but then again there are other explanations that may be possible. Like, maybe the man who said it doesn't have a Dad? I don't, and I may have used the word mum as it just never occurs to me on an instinctive level that Dads are a thing people have!

Grumblesigh · 28/04/2021 09:34

YANBU to point this out to him in an email. If no one objects, he'll keep doing it, assuming it's fine because it always has been. And it's not fine... it's very obviously sexist.