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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Scrapping Shared Parental Leave

199 replies

EasterIssland · 26/04/2021 11:58

It's in the news that it's been requested for it to be scrapped because it's not being used as needed and to get a new system in place.

I'm in between two minds about this, we took Shared Parental Leave with my son, our salaries were similar (I actually earned few ££ more than him), so we took 50/50 time . And I think it was good for my son to have 121 time with myself as well as 121 time with my DH and at the same time spending time together as a family. I'm spanish and right now in spain mum and dad can have 4 months off (which can be at the same time) when a baby is born, however, many dad's decide to delay a few months the shared bit so the baby doesnt go to nursery that early and many of them end up not using their bit as too busy at work (I've seen it a few times now)

I also take the new leave wouldn't be full salary, specially for the partner, as it'd be unfair for a mum to be circa £150/week salary whilst dad/other mum's are on full salary

So im unsure what needs changing so that the system works better.
Would 52 weeks for the mum at the current ML allowance + x amount of weeks at same salary really work? Unless the allowance is really increased to nearly match the salary I can't really see how this would work and how partners would decide to take more leave as it'd impact their home income

Would your partner have really taken chase of it if the allowance was higher ?

www.theguardian.com/money/2021/apr/26/shared-parental-leave-scrap-deeply-flawed-policy-say-campaigners

AIBU : A new system is needed and xyz should be done so it gets better
AINBU : I think the current system is good and a new one would not make partners taking more time off anyway

OP posts:
ShirleyPhallus · 26/04/2021 12:03

We took shared parental leave with my husband doing 3 months off, plus taking 6 weeks of holiday throughout the first few months plus his 2 weeks paternal leave too

It was absolutely fantastic, it really gave both of us the chance to get to know our daughter and to understand what the other was going though either being at home or the one at work

BUT it was so bloody complicated to work out. The system is so difficult and it’s very tricky to understand all the terms - ordinary maternity leave / enhanced mat leave / stat pay / enhanced pay etc etc

I can see why lots don’t do it

I think it’s great but there also needs to be consideration given for women not feeling rushed back to work. Maternity leave is for a woman’s body to heal as well as looking after the bairn

ThorosBeta · 26/04/2021 12:03

I suspect there are two issues:

  1. The take up for shared parental leave has been really low.
  1. The system is complicated - I appreciate it’s not if you sit down and actually read it but it’s something you instantly “get”. I suspect this, along with the pay issue, also affects take up.
ThorosBeta · 26/04/2021 12:04

Sorry, not*

megletthesecond · 26/04/2021 12:04

It needs a generation to bed in IMO.
The teens that are growing up now will hopefully be far more likely to use it and attitudes will change.

WeeWelshWoman · 26/04/2021 12:06

We did Shared Parental Leave and would absolutely want to do it again. Gutted to hear they're thinking of scrapping it.

Original poster
EasterIssland · 26/04/2021 12:09

For me there is two conditions for this to be better

  1. Money, the money needs to be higher for the take up being higher, but I dont think it's fair for the mum to be in MLA at £150 whilst the partner might be having full salary allowance. I cant see some partners who have been earning 2k a month suddenly dropping to 500 but neither I think it's fair them still having those 2k whilst the mum is getting the current allowance.
  1. Some partners will never want to parent, there happy for the mum to carry on doing it whilst they just see the child for a few hours a day

Financially for us it was possible at the current scenario as my company wasn't barely enhancing it(til w9 I was full pay and then ML) and for us is one of the best decision we've taken. But other parents with similar home income would not go for it even if it meant the mum doesnt need to give up x amount of her leave

OP posts:
Original poster
EasterIssland · 26/04/2021 12:10

@WeeWelshWoman

We did Shared Parental Leave and would absolutely want to do it again. Gutted to hear they're thinking of scrapping it.
they're asking for a better one, but what's a better one? Full pay for mum and partner for x amount of weeks???? how many 52? and who would pay for this? Would still dad's take 1yo off to take care of their kids?
OP posts:
rookiemere · 26/04/2021 12:16

It's maybe slightly off point OP, but for point 2, you don't need to be on paternity leave to parent. In some relationships the split is absolutely equal, although obviously the parent that is around more would do more.

I think the scheme should continue to exist in some format, but I believe if someone is going to be a good parent and partner, they will be regardless of working situation.

Original poster
EasterIssland · 26/04/2021 12:20

@rookiemere

It's maybe slightly off point OP, but for point 2, you don't need to be on paternity leave to parent. In some relationships the split is absolutely equal, although obviously the parent that is around more would do more.

I think the scheme should continue to exist in some format, but I believe if someone is going to be a good parent and partner, they will be regardless of working situation.

Yes I know, my son is in nursery and I'm working but still parenting him. What I meant is that some people dont want to have any kind of responsibility , despite they must because that's why they're parents, and leave everything to the mum "because you're the mum" , so they'd not take the new parental leave even if it meant full time for them
OP posts:
Love51 · 26/04/2021 12:27

@megletthesecond

It needs a generation to bed in IMO. The teens that are growing up now will hopefully be far more likely to use it and attitudes will change.
I agree. Who raises children is something you absorb from your own childhood. I had my first before shared leave came in. When I had my second I think it existed, but DH was basically temping whereas I (deliberately) worked somewhere with an excellent maternity package. He had a fight on to get his 2 weeks paternity leave paid (just statutory I think, not full pay). I'd have struggled at that point to give my leave up to him, was glad he wasn't asking, but partly because it was a shock - not how I'd envisaged motherhood. Plus mine were ebf til they started on food (presumably we would have tried a lot harder to get them to take bottles if we had a need to). I'm not sure it is something where we should expect a certain percentage uptake. Giving couples the choice is the right thing to do though.
Horehound · 26/04/2021 12:31

I am unsure about the whole thing tbh.
I feel it is unfair for a monther to give up time with her baby and go back to work earlier because she had to split time with the father.
Breastfeeding is being encouraged more and more and the WHO advise to BF for two years! Well you can't do that if you have to go back to work after a few months...

Original poster
EasterIssland · 26/04/2021 12:31

" Plus mine were ebf til they started on food (presumably we would have tried a lot harder to get them to take bottles if we had a need to)."

My son is still bfing at 3years , it wasn't easy at the beginning but it can be done
We did 0-6 ebf
6-12 mixed bf + blw
12 he started nursery so he was mixed for a bit and after a while he gave up his formula.

OP posts:
bunglebee · 26/04/2021 12:32

We've done SPL twice, in two different ways - first time DH took over for a few months when I went back to work (you couldn't take it in parallel then), second time he was off for 5 months after DC was born (on full pay due to generous SPL pay policy). Both times it's been great and given him a closer bond with the DC and a real understanding of what the daily grind of looking after a baby by yourself is like. In all honesty, we would have struggled financially the second time to have had him take over when I went back, though, as he is the larger earner and to be on full pay he had to take his leave within a certain number of weeks of the birth. We also continued to pay for childcare through my second mat leave, which was not something we had to do until we were both back at work when we had our first. I also think he suffered with his employer for taking the second period of leave in a way I didn't. He received zero support on getting back onto projects on his return and eventually had to switch jobs.

I don't think SPL should be removed, just tweaked. "Use it or lose it" paid leave as in Sweden might help move the needle. More organisations should also introduce (and promote) progressive pay policies that allow for SPL on full pay for a decent length of time. Many men in DH's organisation genuinely had no idea how good the SPL policy and pay were.

Lostatsea1988 · 26/04/2021 12:35

I read the article differently OP. My understanding is that they are pushing for 'use it or lose it' equal parental leave for both parents, which can't be transferred. Presumably mum and dad get 6 months each, if Dad doesn't want to use his then baby will have to go into nursery at 6 months. Most families won't want to do that: a) baby still very young b) nursery costs / difficulty of finding nursery place for such a young baby and c) throwing free money down the drain.

If this became law I expect employers would no longer be allowed to discriminate between men and women in terms of parental leave. I.e. if a female employee gets 3 months full pay, a male employee would have to too.

I am a big supporter of the proposed changes (if backed up with equal pay legislation as noted above). Not enough men are taking pat leave either because:

a) they would rather their wife just took 12 months / the wife would rather just take 12 months; or
b) they are not being less than they would be if they were the mother.

My previous employer paid all men and women 6 months parental leave and I can tell you the uptake is great. Very few men will turn down 6 months full pay, and it normalises men taking paternity leave, and stops women being forced to take the parental leave burden through economics.

bunglebee · 26/04/2021 12:35

Breastfeeding is being encouraged more and more and the WHO advise to BF for two years! Well you can't do that if you have to go back to work after a few months...

That excuse rings a bit hollow when the US has higher rates of breastfeeding than us despite essentially no paid maternity leave and the vast majority of mothers being back at work full-time within a few months if not weeks of birth.

I shared my leave both times and fed both my children beyond two. Neither of them had more than 2 or 3 bottles of formula in that entire time.

Dollywilde · 26/04/2021 12:35

We planned to do SPL but that would have involved me going back to work next week while DH would get the ‘good’ bit of my maternity leave which hasn’t been ruined by lockdown! Plus he’s had the benefit of seeing DD as he’s basically been wfh since she was born so is spending time with her at lunch and when he’d ordinarily be commuting. Plus if he’s not too busy he’ll spend 10 mins with her in the morning/afternoon while I do jobs. We’d definitely want to do SPL next time though, so I’d be gutted if it were scrapped.

Lostatsea1988 · 26/04/2021 12:36

*b) they are being paid less than they would be if they were the mother

sorry for typo

forinborin · 26/04/2021 12:41

My only objection to "use it or lose it" is how that would affect single mothers. Are they only entitled to half leave then?

My ex took (paid) parental leave as SPL for our youngest (we separated before birth), but never spent a day actually looking after them. I did not have any objections as I did not have any entitlement to maternity leave myself at that time, but in case if it was a "use it or lose it" privilege, I probably would not be so easy about it.

Horehound · 26/04/2021 12:41

@bunglebee

Breastfeeding is being encouraged more and more and the WHO advise to BF for two years! Well you can't do that if you have to go back to work after a few months...

That excuse rings a bit hollow when the US has higher rates of breastfeeding than us despite essentially no paid maternity leave and the vast majority of mothers being back at work full-time within a few months if not weeks of birth.

I shared my leave both times and fed both my children beyond two. Neither of them had more than 2 or 3 bottles of formula in that entire time.

Were you feeding on demand for the whole of the first two years? I don't see how you can if you are at work. And does the statistics cover how many feeds or is is just any feed being grouped into being classed as breasted? I.e if they do one nighttime feed and only that, is that still included in a "this baby is breastfed" stat because that's not quite the same thing, is it?
forinborin · 26/04/2021 12:43

My previous employer paid all men and women 6 months parental leave and I can tell you the uptake is great. Very few men will turn down 6 months full pay, and it normalises men taking paternity leave, and stops women being forced to take the parental leave burden through economics.
And they don't require evidence that the other parent is not taking leave? So if both parents are working for your company, they both can take 6 months paid at the same time?

drpet49 · 26/04/2021 12:45

Out of 8 couples that I know who have had children not a single one used shared parental leave.

An0n0n0n · 26/04/2021 12:48

Men should be given 52 weeks paid leave AS WELL. It would bridge some of the childcare gap and stop employers choosing to employ men for fear of them having a baby and taking time off. It would also do huge amounts for showing some men how hard childcare can be a lnd closing the mental load disparity.

MySocalledLoaf · 26/04/2021 12:48

Over about one a breastfed child will mostly ask for food during the day if they are hungry. They don’t need milk. I just stopped feeding my 2.5 year old; I have been working full time since he was 11 months old.

NoSquirrels · 26/04/2021 12:48

In the article, the company (Aviva) who offer all new parents - of whatever sex - 6 months at full pay have a huge uptake across the board. That’s what should be offered, IMO.

26 weeks enhanced pay entitlement within the first 18 months for each parent. Would be a game changer for so much in terms of workplace equality.

bunglebee · 26/04/2021 12:49

Were you feeding on demand for the whole of the first two years? I don't see how you can if you are at work.
And does the statistics cover how many feeds or is is just any feed being grouped into being classed as breasted? I.e if they do one nighttime feed and only that, is that still included in a "this baby is breastfed" stat because that's not quite the same thing, is it?

You feed when you're there. That's "on demand". There is no necessity to be there around the clock for two years to feed "on demand". The first 6 to 8 months of presence is plenty in order to exclusively BF. After this, the baby is plenty capable of eating solids or reverse cycling or taking a bottle of expressed or indeed mixed feeding. Only 34% of UK women are doing any breastfeeding at all at 6 months, with 1% EBF, despite our 12 months of paid leave, compared to 58% of US babies having some breast milk and 25% EBF at the six month mark.

If you care to check the stats yourself, they distinguish between "no breastfeeding", "some breastfeeding", and "completely exclusive breastfeeding". But having to go back to work is not the barrier. Most UK women give up breastfeeding, if they start, months and months before they go back to work.