Aibu to not want to move to Canada

[Sjan82]

Dh and I (early 40s) were lucky with good jobs. We kept the jobs floating and focussed heavily on investment returns for the last 15yrs. We are now able to retire early. (Do we have a FIRE group on mumsnet ?)

Dh wants to move to Canada. A couple of our friends moved there and are really happy. His main reasons are : we get to experience new life, our money goes further and kids get access to North American education and job markets (we have a path to citizenship in Canada). He also wants a change I guess. He lost his mom suddenly recently and the push to Canada became stronger after that !

We almost moved last year but cancelled everything last minute as the pandemic hit. Although I broadly agree with him even now, I’m not totally sure. Things bothering me are: We have to uproot the kids. My daughter is in Y8 at a lovely secondary school and made lots of friends. However, We’ve been to Canada on a few holidays and she loves it there. We have family abroad (asia) and they are double travel time away from Canada :(
I quit my job last month and I’m already struggling with withdrawal symptoms. I don’t think DH wants to quit totally either. He has plans to start a Phd program and move into academics. We are thinking we should just pick low stress jobs in smaller towns so we have quick commutes.

Smaller towns was the plan anyway. Can we not achieve it here in the UK? We are currently in the London-Kent border. We can afford a good size house here, but no where close to what we get in Canada for half the money. The money we’ll save on the house is only surplus, it won’t affect our lifestyle or income, but it could be life changing long term if invested for the kids. Dh says “what’s the difference between moving to Leeds vs moving to Canada”. Hmm, I don’t know!

Sorry I sound totally confused, because I am. I was really onboard and enthusiastic about canada move before the pandemic but now think I just want “normal” like everyone else. My normal is (was?) our city jobs, our old house, our lovely child minder, etc. Two years ago, we hated the 1+ hr commute so much we wanted to move!!

What would you do if you were me? Move or stay? We have time until Jan 2022 to move (if we move after that, we won’t have enough time left on our PR to apply for citizenships).

Option A: Canada. Huge house, friends, mountains, great lifestyle, small town, less congestion, shorter commutes to work, new experiences. This involves uprooting the kids and moving even further from family :(

Option B: stay where we are. Get a nice house spending 1/3rd of our net worth. Local friends, familiarity and Europe holidays. Quicker to visit family abroad. This comes with London commute, congestion etc seriously impacting quality of life.

Option C : Move to smaller towns in the UK. Best of both worlds! Dh doesn’t see why this should be preferred over option A :( We visit family aboard only once a year, it’ll only mean 9+ hours of extra flight time once a year.

AIBU to want option B or C ? I don’t know why though. Just familiarity perhaps.

I'd also consider the power imbalance that would be created in your relationship if the only way you'd be allowed to remain in the country (and so be near the DC) was if you're married to DH. I couldn't put myself in a situation where I'd potentially have to choose between a relationship with my DC where I'm part of their everyday lives or leaving a shitty marriage. You'd at least want to have the ability to stay there divorced even if you couldn't bring the DC back to the UK. Even with that option I still think there could be a power imbalance. I do value freedom above almost everything else though, maybe you have different priorities.

I’ve been in Canada for 3 years now and find the healthcare much better than the NHS. I actually feel looked after by my family doctor and I never felt like that in the UK.

I would move if I were you. You don't have money worries and can always come back, plus you already have PR, which would make things easier, health coverage. Kids will experience a different culture.

I’ve lived in Alberta for 5 years. I can’t believe people are claiming the OP should be worried about Alberta Health Services (AHS) compared to the NHS 😂😂. Healthcare is managed provincially. Ontario and Alberta are not the same healthcare system.

Long winters, yes. But we love them. Skating, sledding, snow shoeing, ice fishing, snowmobiling, cross country ski-ing. DH loves downhill ski-ing and can go to Banff or Jasper for the day several times every winter. We came with 3 kids (8, 7, 3, now 13, 12, 9) who had no experience and are all now excellent skaters and proficient horse riders.

The kids school is phenomenal. That’s partly because we live in a very nice small town. YMMV. Our 4 bed detached home cost $379k CAD. I’ve been able to retrain for my dream career with a generous post-grad student loan and grant (provincial and federal).

I wouldn’t move back to the UK. It’s not easy to emigrate and there are days I get homesick. Especially during Covid, I have really felt the distance with my parents. With that said, when they visit (hopefully that won’t be too much longer!!) they come for a month and we have enough space easily. I would say go for it. Groceries are expensive, sure. It doesn’t sound like you’re struggling to budget though so I think you’ll be fine 😉

Not Canada, but Aus.
After quite a few years here (a lot) we have decided to move back to UK.
Pandemic has made the world seem a lot smaller an we are really missing the UK.
We have decided to move somewhere different to where we used to live (edge of London) and try it there. Being in the same country as friends and relatives sounds blissful, It is hard uprooting and moving to a new country. It is not all sunshine and oranges. Making friends takes a lot of energy, as does getting used to mundane stuff- registering your car/pet/paying tax/doctors appointments

I’m 41 and retired. I’m not bored in the least. There are so many other things to do than work, I do a lot of classes about things I’m interested in, and exercise a lot and spend time with my kids. Being bored is not inevitable, just requires planning and cultivation of interests.
I could never go back to a corporate job just because I was wanting something to occupy my mind, didn’t you hate the commute for good reason? Why would you do that if you didn’t have to?
I would think country side rather than another country for your circumstances. But a big country town so you could do lots of activities and have access to good schools.
That’s what we’ve done.

I should add, I live in the country I grew up in, after almost a decade abroad. I found it very hard to make friends and meet people simply because I didn’t grow up in this city and was retired. I think that could be a common experience when moving to the countryside. Most people have never left and have enough friends and family and aren’t looking for more.
I found living abroad much easier in this respect, lots of people who weren’t from there, expats etc.

Another Alberta-ite. Been here 10 years. Canada has been kind to us. Far more opportunities than we would have had in the U.K. Our son was born here.
We have one house in the North, home to the long, cold winter (and we’re talking frequent weeks of -30 and below) and a second home in the mountains about an hour from Calgary. It’s not far on a map but it’s an 8.5 hour drive.
Things can be disorganised - the Covid vaccine was only rolled out to over 40s with no preexisting conditions this week but if you want it, you have to have the Astra Zeneca. AHS seems on a par for me with the U.K. - I had to wait 9 months for a hip replacement once the Consultant said I needed it but it had taken me another 15 months to get to that point via my doctor and a couple of failed treatments. Some of those treatments required travelling 4.5 hours to the next big city as my local hospital couldn’t provide them. We certainly don’t have the luxury of a Covid treatment centre 2km down the road. Our ICU has 7 beds and they’re all full.

I found living abroad much easier in this respect, lots of people who weren’t from there, expats etc.

Yeah- I think this depends a lot where you go. I live in HK and it's quite easy to make friends as there are a lot of expats and also a lot of short termers ( 2-3 year fixed term contracts) so friendship groups don't get too established and people are always in the market for new friends. Friends who moved to NY in their 40's found it really difficult because groups were more established and people are less inclined to "take a chance" on dinner with some newbies when the babysitter is going to cost them $50.

We will probably move back in a few years and I can see it will probably be harder to make friends in a new town in the UK than it has been in HK.

That said, having even a couple of friends there already makes things a lot easier as you can leverage their friendship groups to get started.

You’re looking to move to a very beautiful part of Canada. In my visits I have always been surprised quite how different the culture is, I have stayed with a Canadian friend and our cultural differences are quite marked. I have always found that I miss the UK after a few weeks despite the beauty simply because I miss the familiarity.

How is the pandemic in that area? My friend in ON has just gone into a new lockdown as numbers are rising. Could this affect your plans and time limit?

I have nothing to add but am finding this thread fascinating!

Lots of potential problems here op!

1. FIRE : be careful what you wish for! Retire early for what?! A lifetime twiddling fingers and watching daytime TV?! Much better to change direction, do something you love or get a job you would hate to retire from or study something new or learn new skills! Why? You need a purpose and a direction to be happy in life!

1. Canada is vast! Where would you go? Far away from the big towns can be very redneck and not good for employment possibities; weather can be very harsh everyone practically hibernates and winters where even skiing is too cold to enjoy.

1. Close to big cities: very expensive, environmentally unfriendly with the lack of public transport, terrible traffic and huge distances, Extremely expensive, competitive ( out right how much do you earn?) Although definitely friendly and multiculturalism is surprisingly only in pockets not all over, and more often than not very divisive by area. Lack of city planning has ruined downtown Vancouver with shocking open drug use on the streets, buildings turned into bedsits by absent landlords buying up whole streets of houses many from HK / China, there is a lot of forums on this problem making it family unfriendly.

1. Expensive groceries.

On the good side, and if you have time to live as if you are on holiday all the time, then traveling around Canada and enjoying the natural beauty, hiking, camping, spotting wildlife is perfect in the summer and autumn.

You need to put your child's education 1st.

They are in year 8, so going into year 9 in September where they will be choosing their options for their GCSE's.

You can't sacrifice their education to move to Canada and then find in a year or 2 and not like and then come back. If you are unsure then you have to put your child above your DH wants.

Canada isn't my cup of tea, I find it enormously dull. I have only visited, never lived there, and a close friend lives out there (she is Canadian). To me it feels like quite bland compared to the rich, varies history and culture of the UK and Europe. The people are friendly and polite but that's not enough to keep me there, their interests are mostly sport and watching sport. I appreciate that's a generalisation but it seems to permeate every person's life in a way I don't feel it does here. Obviously just my own thoughts. If you're into sport it might be great.

Healthcare, education, prices, I expect are just as variable as the UK. Where I live in the UK healthcare and schools are good, housing is mostly affordable if you're happy to commute. So I'd have a high bar to judge against.

If it were not for Brexit I think living in Europe would be incredible - so much choice and variety, culture etc all within a few hours of the UK and transport hubs to the rest of the world. Ho hum.

I'm in Scotland so I don't know what age your DD is, but I'd be reluctant to move a happy teen unless there is a compelling reason to do so. Personally I'd go for option D - stay where you are until her schooling has finished, then you're not uprooting her.

We've always joked that if we had witness relocation we would move to Canada , so I can see the attraction. It just doesn't feel like you have a well thought out rationale for moving, plus if early retirement is the goal nothing is going to eat through the savings like two house moves if it doesn't work out.

I've lived in Canada and came back to the UK. I think - having moved DC back, your DD is the wrong age to contemplate a move like that. I can see now If I'd waited until Y8 to move back my DC would never have forgiven me or got over it.

I’m among those who worked like crazy and invested wisely so I can retire early. I’m not bored in the slightest. Maybe your friends have narrow interests. Don’t judge all FIRE people according to your circle of boring friends

Totally agree.
To be able to live your life without being exhausted and constrained by the demands of work is absolutely great. Stress free living, able to pursue your hobbies, develop new interests, travel at will and above all relax in the knowledge you've served your time in employment and have the time and space to reap the rewards of that.
We are not all defined by our employed job.
There really is no down side to it if you afford to retire early. If you feel the need to be employed by someone, you can get another job of your choosing and do the hours you want. If you were bored (why would you be?) you can take up many pursuits, learn new skills and offer your expertise or time to the many voluntary organisations wanting support. Being able to enjoy new friendships, travel widely and never have to jump to the alarm clock is a great reward.
For those sneering at FISH - you will be happy the retirement age is climbing up all the time then? Such a pity as there are just too many people totally exhausted by the time they reach it.

I don’t think you actually want to move to Canada, and none of your reasons for moving there sound either specific to Canada (other than potentially citizenship path?) or particularly compelling. And I don’t think you think so either.

A lot of people found Covid restrictions and changes to work patterns have made them rethink their lives and priorities.

I also think your husband’s plan to do a PhD and ‘move into academics’ (assuming he means academia) may be deeply unrealistic. In my field and cognate fields, only a tiny percentage of doctoral graduates get academic jobs, and even they have to be prepared to move around the country, or internationally, for rare post-docs and fixed-term jobs for long periods of their career. It’s very tough for people of any age with children.

Which I realise is not what you asked, but it makes me wonder about whether he’s thought through the Canada plan.

Went on holiday there a couple times as a child and my parents talked about moving there at the time, but it didn’t happen. It is an absolutely stunning place. The most beautiful I’ve ever seen probably!

As an adult there is a flavour to the idea of moving there that I never considered at the time, when we were buying souvenir moccasins from the reservation, which is the colonialist aspect. The land has been taken from the indigenous people and they are still not well treated. I’d need to think about if I could move there in a way that didn’t further perpetuate the injustice.

Oh that's difficult.
We are older than you and often dreamed of moving to Canada as our close friends are there and love it. It was always "maybe next year", "maybe when the kids are a bit older", well it doesn't get any easier as they get older!!
Ours are 23, 20 and 19 now and only one would relocate with us, their lives and friends are here and I'm not going without them.
I'm interested in you feeling the American education system is an advantage for them? Why do you feel this? I thought university costs in USA were astronomical?

There’s a FIRE thread here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/4165470-FIRE-starter

@StoneofDestiny - the OP has school aged children. Travelling and lying in bed all day are kind of off the cards.

I feel like the thing people don’t necessarily realise - certainly I didn’t realise - is that these questions about land rights are not something confined to the dusty textbooks of history that have become irrelevant but rather they are ongoing struggles involving real people today. Not only that but the disputes actually arose within fairly recent history. Here is a bit of history about British Columbia www.ubcic.bc.ca/a_short_commentary_on_land_claims_in_bc and here is a news story from a week ago one one example of a BC dispute www.saanichnews.com/news/b-c-indigenous-nation-opposes-mineral-exploration-in-culturally-sensitive-area/amp/
So I think if you are a British person considering moving from the UK to British Columbia, it is quite imperative that you see yourself within this context.

@StoneofDestiny - the OP has school aged children. Travelling and lying in bed all day are kind of off the cards

I recognise that. Not sure 'lying in bed all day' was a suggestion. But going to work every day at a time well before schools starts, often necessitated someone else taking the children to school. OP talked of a 1 hr commute.

If your plan is to retire early, then surely the congestion and commute is a non-issue?

I honestly don't mean this rudely at all but you are in a situation of 'much wants more' - your children go to great schools, you live in a nice area, with excellent jobs and are in target for early retirement.

There is no need to emigrate. Once you retire you could take month long holidays in Canada or anywhere you want really.