Aibu to not want to move to Canada

[Sjan82]

Dh and I (early 40s) were lucky with good jobs. We kept the jobs floating and focussed heavily on investment returns for the last 15yrs. We are now able to retire early. (Do we have a FIRE group on mumsnet ?)

Dh wants to move to Canada. A couple of our friends moved there and are really happy. His main reasons are : we get to experience new life, our money goes further and kids get access to North American education and job markets (we have a path to citizenship in Canada). He also wants a change I guess. He lost his mom suddenly recently and the push to Canada became stronger after that !

We almost moved last year but cancelled everything last minute as the pandemic hit. Although I broadly agree with him even now, I’m not totally sure. Things bothering me are: We have to uproot the kids. My daughter is in Y8 at a lovely secondary school and made lots of friends. However, We’ve been to Canada on a few holidays and she loves it there. We have family abroad (asia) and they are double travel time away from Canada :(
I quit my job last month and I’m already struggling with withdrawal symptoms. I don’t think DH wants to quit totally either. He has plans to start a Phd program and move into academics. We are thinking we should just pick low stress jobs in smaller towns so we have quick commutes.

Smaller towns was the plan anyway. Can we not achieve it here in the UK? We are currently in the London-Kent border. We can afford a good size house here, but no where close to what we get in Canada for half the money. The money we’ll save on the house is only surplus, it won’t affect our lifestyle or income, but it could be life changing long term if invested for the kids. Dh says “what’s the difference between moving to Leeds vs moving to Canada”. Hmm, I don’t know!

Sorry I sound totally confused, because I am. I was really onboard and enthusiastic about canada move before the pandemic but now think I just want “normal” like everyone else. My normal is (was?) our city jobs, our old house, our lovely child minder, etc. Two years ago, we hated the 1+ hr commute so much we wanted to move!!

What would you do if you were me? Move or stay? We have time until Jan 2022 to move (if we move after that, we won’t have enough time left on our PR to apply for citizenships).

Option A: Canada. Huge house, friends, mountains, great lifestyle, small town, less congestion, shorter commutes to work, new experiences. This involves uprooting the kids and moving even further from family :(

Option B: stay where we are. Get a nice house spending 1/3rd of our net worth. Local friends, familiarity and Europe holidays. Quicker to visit family abroad. This comes with London commute, congestion etc seriously impacting quality of life.

Option C : Move to smaller towns in the UK. Best of both worlds! Dh doesn’t see why this should be preferred over option A :( We visit family aboard only once a year, it’ll only mean 9+ hours of extra flight time once a year.

AIBU to want option B or C ? I don’t know why though. Just familiarity perhaps.

If you move there make sure your options are kept open as wide as possible. Keep a property here! As for wether you will like it or not it’s impossible to say but having done similar (we went to NZ) what I will say is that it can be a big cultural shock. We were in our 40s and we realised that it was probably the wrong stage in life to be making that kind of move. It would have been better in our 20s we would have been more adaptable then I think. Also we found the culture/ values/ beliefs weren’t quite in line with how we were bringing up ds. That’s not a criticism of NZ it’s just how it was. And that’s the kind of thing you might not know before you live somewhere.
We came back to the UK.

I don't think you can ever know what it would really be like without trying it, but I definitely wouldn't burn your boats in the UK as you may want to come back. It is much harder to settle and form lasting relationships as an expat. Groups of foreigners tend to flock together but people come and go, and those with whom you have spent a lot of time can disappear without a backward glance. I speak from experience, though not of Canada. I have a friend who has been well and truly adopted by that country and is very happy there, but she is a single woman. The trouble comes when all parts of the family do not have the same positive experience. Your DH may love it but you or your DC may not. You need a full and Frank discussion as a whole family, looking at things from all sides. Good luck with whatever you decide.

I moved to Montreal from London at 35. I lasted 3 years. Not for me.
Definitely wouldn't move with children.

Also, I hope you speak French if living in Quebec (largest province) I do, fluently. But still, the cultural difference was bigger than both Italy and France (living wise) for me.

Like a PP said, people are extremely friendly, but it is all totally superfical. I agree with the 'Stepford wife' thing also.

I couldn't really make sense of where your family are and how much you see them. It sounds like you are very wealthy so whilst your remain healthy I guess you can travel to see them every year. Will that be enough for you? If that is a decrease and you're not happy, personally I would not do it. I have lots of family abroad and I feel much less connected to them then family nearer who I see multiple times a year. For some they are not so bothered about that though and for you, I could not figure out whether that was a decrease or not. If you don't see family much, don't mind not really seeing friends more than once a year or less, then I was not sure what Leeds offered over Canada TBH. Is it just the idea of moving to a new county which is daunting? I can understand that but then I guess it's a matter of trying to make sense of whether, for you, that would be a temporary usettledness or whether you need more consistency in your life to feel happy.

Nothing would induce me to move to Canadian winters.

Canada.

C makes no sense, really.

It sounds like your new reluctance is because you’re craving your old pre-pandemic life, as lots of us are, but that’s gone. It sounds like you’ve already ended that pretty categorically.

C is uprooting everything to try a different part of the U.K. randomly... A is your long term goal, and Canada is a pretty awesome place. I have friends who set up homes there, I’m very jealous of them - they have lovely lives, ups and downs of course but they love it. If I had a route to citizenship, I’d be using it, hands down.

We considered moving at one point but decided against it.

My dsis has just moved and seems to like it. Think she struggles with not working though. As she’s always worked and is now a SAHM.

No you're not unreasonable. It's bloody cold!

@Sjan82 which part of Canada are you considering? It’s a huge country.

Has your DH really considered the effect of moving on your DCs? I mean has he really thought about how stressful and unsettling it is to leave everything familiar behind you when you are a child or teen? Some children don’t cope well with such a huge change. Hopefully your children will be ok with it but you need to consider the very real possibility that one of the DC cant’t settle. I wouldn’t uproot my DC unless they were very young or there was absolutely no other choice.

Unless you are excited about the idea, you need to say no to moving because it puts a huge strain on even the strongest marriage. You don’t want to be stuck in Canada with DH refusing to let the DCs come back to the Uk with you (worst case scenario).

I wouldn't do C, it's unfair on the DC who lose their school and friends but get shit all in return.

I would move to British Columbia as then you avoid the worse of the Canadian winters, and also, depending on exactly where your Asian family are, you will be closer to them.

I can't speak to all aspects of the move, but I do want to share something I've heard from one of DH's Canadian work colleagues (and his wife, she's a nurse). In their view, the Canadian health system is on its knees and he openly says that if he still been living there when his cancer was discovered, he believes he'd be dead now. Simply because he couldn't have accessed the treatment he needed.

I know that isn't a primary concern for you, but it shocked me to hear that as I'd assumed their healthcare system would be well-functioning, but DH's colleague thinks otherwise.

The only reason I wouldn't move to Canada is because I'd miss my family so much other than that I'd go in a heartbeat.

How about somewhere in Europe? Switzerland or Scandinavia would give you a very similar lifestyle to Canada, possibly with better choice of good universities (ok, not quite such vast expanses, but still mountains and outdoor lifestyle). A PhD is an excellent way to move because it's time limited (3-4 years, then a couple more on the end while the kids finish school) and comes with a visa. You can work remotely and commute to London every few weeks and the kids are within easy distance to go home with you if it doesn't work out, or go back for boarding school/university.

Any move would mean you have to start out again with friends. Having done multiple international moves, I wouldn't actually having friends somewhere as a bonus. Are they realistically going to want to see you more than once a fortnight? What happens if they leave or move or divorce? You have to be emotionally independent. Similarly, if there are any cracks in your marriage, an international move will prise them wide open. You have to be honest with yourself about that. It's going to be lonely and stressful for quite some time where ever you move to (probably even Leeds!) which will highlight all the weaknesses.

I think the point about where in Canada you move to is pertinent, BC is very different from the interior provinces which are very different from Toronto.

I'm glad I moved with small children and not teens as I worried that if we stayed any longer ( we were there 5 years) the kids wouldn't want to come back.

I think if you have serious doubts you shouldn't go and your husband should not pressure you. I had minor doubts and still found it hard. We loved it the first year but once the novelty wore off and you had to get up on dark mornings to drop the dc off at day care etc the homesickness set in.

Someone on an expat website wrote its the "same shit different bucket" which sums it up for me.

Whereabouts in Canada?

If it’d be one of the areas (much of Canada) where the climate is ‘9 months winter and 3 months late in the fall’ as someone once put it, then my answer would be a no thanks very much.

Canada is a really (really) big country- it isn't all the same.

Where are you planning on living?

Have you visited in the winter?

Winter can be so long, and so so cold.

Depending on where you live, there can be a lack of public transportation.

More rural areas have far fewer opportunities for young people ( ie clubs, choice of schools etc )

Travel- city breaks don't tend to happen in the same way. In the UK , you can experience a wide variety of cities/ cultures, with either a short plane journey, or even the train. Not so much there.

I don't think living expenses are quite as reasonable as here.

Just a few thoughts

I'd go to Canada.
But, before the new school year starts and commit to it until your daughter finishes school.
Or, wait, if you can, until your daughter finishes school.

I think Canada sounds amazing but you don't want to so you shouldn't. Would it be possible to wait til your kids are 18+/at university if they're planning to go, then spend split your time between Canada and the UK?

If my kids weren't strongly against it, I would move. However, it has to be with the understanding that if either of you aren't happy after, let's say 2-3 years, you'd move back (or somewhere else). I'm of the view that life is short and the world is big, and you only regret the things you didn't do. Everything else adds value in some way.

Is North American education and job markets really that great of a selling point? I mean, I'm sure canadian education system is good, but is it that great that it's a reason to move?

Also, I'm wondering where you are looking into moving because Canada is expensive. So it's can't be next to a major city so the lifestyle will be very different than what you experience now in London.

It there an option of short term move? Would your husband be up to that? Or is it if you go then you'd be come back alone? If you decided to stay, would your marriage be ok?

It seems a bit random to move to another continent unless there is a specific advantage (e.g. a very good job offer that necessitates moving). Basically moving will always have some disadvantages, and it will take time to settle in even if all goes well.

Since you’re comfortably off, I’d be inclined to stat where you are but try and make some tweaks to your lifestyle - e.g. buy in the UK but not too far away. Option C lite, if you like.

Friend wanted to move to Canada for YEARS! It was all she ever spoke about. They went through the visas and it took ages ... they were home within 6 months. Another friend lives there with her family (her husband is Canadian), he is thrilled to be home, she's bored silly.

Thanks everyone, I read all the replies. Got a lot to think about!
To answer some of your questions, we’ve been planning this move since 2019. We were about to move when Covid happened. MIL passed away after that. The move is not motivated by bereavement.
We are looking at Kelowna BC and Calgary, AB. We don’t mind the snow as long as there are mountains and sunshine. Calgary fits the bill very well. We have friends in both places.

We sold our UK house as we moved closer to DDs school. grew out of it anyway. If we decide to return, we’ll lose out on this. We have a couple of investment properties that we intend to keep (not in the area we live). could sell one those perhaps, to make up for the difference. Not ideal, but that’s one option. We considered keeping our old house as a rental investment, but numbers didn’t workout. Very low yield compared to other areas. So we sold.

Another major point DH makes is, if we don’t like canada, we could always move to the US (have lots of family there). Canadians move to the US on TN visas in our field of work and it’s fairly popular. We need Canadian citizenship for that though (3 yrs).

I think I personally would opt for B or C. Canada is a fantastic country, but you don’t sound as though you want to emigrate!

I would opt for a European country like stodgystollen says!