Pronouns

[idontlikealdi]

I know this has been done to death on the feminism boards, but it's always been something I've read about and not encountered.

I the last few weeks I have had a slew of people on LinkedIn / clients / colleagues add pronouns to their sign off.

I work in a global capacity, no one not in the UK is doing this. I don't care what you identify as as long as you complete the job. Of the very few people who don't identify as they present, just tell me once and we're sorted.

I'm getting RAGE. It's fucking ridiculous. I'm thinking of adding giraffe / goat / duck to mine.

YABU - everyone should do it
YANBU - it's virtue signalling wokeness, at best.

@chickenyhead. Even babies can tell men from women.

Oh babies can say this can they?

@chickenyhead

Oh babies can say this can they?

It’s a little thing called research. You should try it some time.

I hated putting my professional qualifications in my email signature. I'd feel an utter twat putting my pronouns in there too. If we start declaring every protected characteristic it's going to get very complicated.
Arguably my disability status needs more adaptation than my colleague's gender identity but I'm not asking everyone to declare which meeting rooms are suitable for them.

bizarre

So 92% of you do not respect people's pronouns and get your knickers in a twist about it. Add your pronoun to your Linked-in, Facebook etc or don't. Just respect others and the pronouns they use. Also, some people have a gender neutral name and nowadays people do not always like to use Ms, Mrs etc. By using a pronoun you know how to address somebody.

It really is not a big deal. I see so many posts about this. Come on over to 2021 people.

@chickenyhead

That's not my lived experience. But I'm sure YOU know best.

But if I met a very masculine looking woman i might well think that they deliberately wanted to present as a man so I'd be polite and respect that. While trying to avoid giving offence either way.

Oh Katypyee. I’ve seen other posts from you.

You know this issue is more than just about pronouns. I won’t ‘just’ do anything you tell me. It really is an ‘big deal’ as well you know. Women’s and children’s rights are at stake here as you are well aware of.

Why don't they suggest people put Ms/Mr after their names? Obviously it would look naff, but any more so than she etc.

By using a pronoun you know how to address somebody.

As long as those pronouns are based on sex, it’s all good.

There is nothing wrong with they/them grammatically as a singular (as a pp suggested):
"Oh look, that person has dropped their wallet, quick run after them".
"The client before you didn't leave their details." "Did they not?"
"Someone in the office had their birthday today, they brought doughnuts in". "That was very kind of them".

We use it all the time.

On the OP's point. Don't worry about other people choosing to post their pronouns- it won't hurt you, honestly. It's a bit like the joke about "Don't like gay marriage? Then don't get gay married".

@Wearywithteens

“If you get an email from Melanie Smith, you assume it’s a woman - having ‘she/her’ specified at the end makes no difference.”

Putting pronouns means you buy into the idea of ‘gender identity’. Gender identity is a fabrication based purely on crude gender stereotypes. No one with half a brain really believes that Melanie is a woman just because she wears nail polish sometimes, drives a Fiat 500 and drinks pink gin. Melanie would be just as much a woman if she was built like a tank, played rugby and drank Guinness. Gender identity is bullshit. Pronouns therefore are bullshit. Choosing to put them at the end of your email is like a klaxon going off that you are not really a critical thinker and probably a bit naive or a aggy teenager.

So if gender identity is bullshit and pronouns are bullshit, and people shouldn't feel they have to tell others their pronouns - that sounds like a great case for all of us using they/them. Sounds good.

lSo if gender identity is bullshit and pronouns are bullshit, and people shouldn't feel they have to tell others their pronouns - that sounds like a great case for all of us using they/them. Sounds good.

No. Because sex based pronouns are he/she for males and she/her for females. Sex is biology. Biology can be proven. It’s not based on ‘feels’. Facts matter. Biology matters.

So if gender identity is bullshit and pronouns are bullshit,

Pronouns aren’t bullshit, if based on sex.

Biological female, female dna, observed female at birth= She/Her

Biological male, male dna, observed male at birth= He/Him

It’s really not complicated. Sex matters.

Gender ideology. Believe what you want. Don’t expect others to go along with your ideology.

@KaleSlayer

Biological female, female dna, observed female at birth= She/Her

Biological male, male dna, observed male at birth= He/Him

It’s really not complicated. Sex matters.

Gender ideology. Believe what you want. Don’t expect others to go along with your ideology.

I agree with this. But it doesn't make me any more comfortable with using pronouns.

I am a woman so when it comes down to it, yeah I suppose I am 'she/her'. But actually identifying that way would make me feel deeply uncomfortable. Especially if a workplace or something asked me to add it to emails. Yes I am a woman but I am almost just me, inhabiting many feminine and masculine traits according to society. I don't 'identify' as anything at all.

I am a woman so when it comes down to it, yeah I suppose I am 'she/her'. But actually identifying that way would make me feel deeply uncomfortable. Especially if a workplace or something asked me to add it to emails. Yes I am a woman but I am almost just me, inhabiting many feminine and masculine traits according to society. I don't 'identify' as anything at all.

I agree. You don’t need to tell people. It’s all bollocks.

@Watchingthetelly

I do this. Not because there’s likely to be an ambiguity about myself, I do it to signify I’m an ally and to normalise the whole thing. No skin off my nose. I think of it as a transitional thing while ppl get accustomed to the concept, like ppl got accustomed to not all women wanting to get married or some ppl being gay, for example. The numbers of trans ppl are very small and I imagine it must be lonely at times. If me using a corporate template with my pronouns and a rainbow helps a person feel less isolated - that’s a good thing from where I’m standing 🤷🏻‍♀️

I find this a really interesting concept. A bit like everyone calling someone they were with 'partner' in right on circles in the 80s. Partly so gay people weren't compelled to lie or weren't singled out if they used it. Everyone did, so far, so non-heteronormative. No one had to know the sex of one's OH.

But this is like saying me thinking "MrsTerry Straight" or MrsTerry no disabilities" in my bio is helpful to gay people or people with disabilities. If I'm of the normative group how does my stating my pronouns help? And 99% of what I've seen is clearly women with XX sex stating she/her. So isn't that cisnormative (I apologise)? No one ever hears me use their pronouns anyway, since they are third person. So how is this a good thing?

I'm going with useless virtue signaling.

Meh
Each to their own.
Your poll by the way doesn't have an in between button - it should be YABU people should be able to do it if they want instead of everyone should do it.
You've worded it so that people who don't have a problem with other people doing it but think people should also have a choice can't vote accurately.

So if gender identity is bullshit and pronouns are bullshit, and people shouldn't feel they have to tell others their pronouns - that sounds like a great case for all of us using they/them. Sounds good.

I'd be happy with that. I don't know why it's necessary to know other people's sex either.

I'd be happy with that. I don't know why it's necessary to know other people's sex either.

Sorry, I should have qualified that by saying - unless it's a situation where their sex becomes relevant. But at work it generally isn't.

@MrsTerryPratchett I believe it helps because a) it normalises the stating of pronouns. For someone has transitioned and has an ambiguous gender, it should then make it easier for them to also state preferred pronouns. B) in a very tiny way creates awareness that gender identity is a thing.

It’s not a perfect thing to do, but I judge it as good on the whole.

DH has a 'female' nickname. It's quite amusing to see how his communication via email, for example, with a male curator/collector/dealer starts out flirtatiously (not on DH's part!) and then abruptly, the tune changes once the bloke on the other side realises DH isn't a female. It's interesting (and tiresomely predictable) seeing how often the default approach by men is to turn on the charm and bravado. A but predatory from the get-go. But then, I'm being unfair to men across the board here and that's not right. Truth is, this happens infrequently, but it happens enough.

Still, wild horses won't drag DH into the pronoun quagmire. It's just feeding the beast.

@KaleSlayer

So if they refer to you as him or he, that will be fine, right? Because you don’t get to choose what pronouns they use to refer to you by?

Pronouns should be sex based like they always have been. So if they choose to call me something else, they’ll be wrong because I’m a biologically female so she/her are correct. Biology matters.

Matters to you, maybe.