to think that the life of pre-school age children is NOT all about 'getting ready fo school'?

[Astrophe]

My DD is 3. I stared taking her to a kiddie gymnastics type thing - 45 minute session once a week in September, thinking she would enjoy it. She doesn't. She has given it a really good try I think - she went all of last half term, and one week this half term. But she finds it very upsetting - no idea why.

When I told them his week that I wasn't going to bring her any more, I copped a lecture from the ladies who run it about how DD "needs to learn to stick at things" and how she "wont get on at school" if she doesn't learn to separate from me better (she is fine elsewhere btw) and that its important for school that children attend these sorts of groups.

It makes me so angry that they think they know my child better than me, but what upsets me more is the attitude that everything a pre-school age child does needs to be preparation for school.

Life as a three year old is important in its own right, not just as practice for being 4! I see this attitude everywhere - friends giving their pre-school DC worksheets 'to prepare them for school' and taking them to so many activities in order to 'build their stamina for school'

Childhood is so fleeting and so precious, it just makes me so sad.

I don't think its helped by the fact that children start school 2 years too early in this country (imho).

So AIBU? Am I setting my child up to be 'unprepared' for school and hence an abysmal failure in life???

sorry im really tired

ds does not go to kindergarten and dh was working at the weekend

children do learn through play

just the kindergartens here
seem to have no imput into leading the children in how to play

Message withdrawn

DS1 didn't attend nursery, preschool, gym classes or anything else apart from a few playgroups. He started school this term (Reception) and is loving it, and getting on very well. I like to think that this is at least partly because I let him take things at his own pace.

then I think we are on the level doodle

Am at the attitude of the gym coach.

I coach gymnastics and its the opposite that drive me mad!! The mums who leave their obviously upset LO's saying "they love it really ...." or "she'll soon get used to it, just take her off me and she'll stop crying soon enough" - unbelievable attitudes

Of course YANBU - if your child isn't happy then you must stop. She is still so young and they grow up so fast ....too fast!

You are not teaching them any bad habits and if it helps to know, i see lots of little ones back a couple of years later

wish you were our gym coach then bluenose!

DS loves school, he´s been going since he was 2.11 yrs, he´s now 5 - we don´t live in England btw. However, he so far has had 3 wonderful "teachers" who let them play & the Head of Infants hates it when parents come in asking for homework for their lo's & always tells them to let them play as there will be plenty of homework later on.

My daughter is just 3 and started French école maternelle (every day) in September (&t 2.10). It's full of learning goals and she just loves it - yesterday we went to the playground after school and she was shouting "I love school Mummy" from the top of the jungle gym.

Probably depends on the child. My daughter was ready for - and needed school - two months ago.

depends on your child

dd1 didnt want to do anything including nursery so therefore she didnt do anything

she loved school from day one

dd2 and dd3 have had to do nursery as I have been working, dd2 loved it and gets a bit bored being at home all day, dd3 loves anything when she gets smiled at by other people

I agree it depends on the child, and on the nursery. There are some wonderful reception and even year one teachers out there who recognise the value and importance of play.

My DD goes to a nursery which we are very happy with - it is play based and child lead, and if they sent DD home with a worksheet or made her sit at a a table and write, I would be very surprised, and very angry.

I am certainly not against nursery overall, but let me say this: Increasingly, studies show that formal education before the age of around 6 is unhelpful for children in the long run. Whereas they can catch up on educational goals, they cannot catch up the play and social skills they miss out on if they are in formal education too early.

So although many children may enjoy formal school, and may get on fine and cope with it easily, as parents we need to think about what is best for our children, not just what they can cope with or what they enjoy.

I think this is something we need to push the government to think address, because the system at the moment doesn't leave parents with a lot of choice.

And on that unpopular note, I shall go to Mums and toddlers group

yanbu
let's get everyone married at 16, so they can get used to it

YANBU.
In fact I did the same thing with kiddie gym with my ds1 after they wouldn't give him a sticker one week because they said he wasn't listening properly! Music classes didn't work either!
Pre-school years just like every other stage of life is about living life and learning which will naturally prepare you for the next stage.(sorry that's not very good English!)
There will be obvious things that your child will do in preparation for school - mainly at nursery, but IMO even those should be about gentle guidance.
BTW I do not think we start school too early here but perhaps that is becuase ds1 has been very ready for each stage of his education so far, and ds2 is heading the same way - I appreciate that not all dc are like that.

dd1 laid in the middle of the ring of well behaved children and screamed her head off when she was 2.5

this was during Music with mummy

I had just had a miscarriage and ended up crying hysterically in the kitchen of the woman who was leading the group

I never went back with any of my consequent children either put me off for LIFE

How stupid! Of course yanbu. Those 4 yrs before school are so precious. I've sometimes felt they were the only real years of childhood - once they're in to the education machine they are simply not the same .

It gets worse once they are at school of course. DS#1's first parent's evening in Yr4 was all about how if he didn't pull his socks up he was going to fail at secondary school! He was 8 ffs!!! Alway looking forward to the next stage, never enjoying the present.

Astrophe - I think it's very hard to conclude unequivocally that putting children in a formal educational setting before the age of 5/6 is not useful for children.

My daughter is not "coping" with her French école maternelle - she adores it. And this despite the fact that she spent the first 2.10 years of her life in a most unFrench setting, at home with me co-sleeping, breastfeeding and generally having a cosy time.

French école maternelle is mostly about play and learning to socialise. There are good and less good things about it. But it certainly benefits my daughter, who is a happy, easy-going child generally, and who is even happier due to the added stimulation and enjoyment of spending just under 3 hours every morning in a group of 14 other children born within a few months of her, with a French teacher, an English teacher and a classroom assistant to help them learn colours, seasons, numbers, singing, dancing, how to behave in a group, how to play within boundaries etc.

The other 21 hours of the day are as usual and lovely too.

yes dd2 could have been at formal school at least a year earlier and would have thrived

but she is very academic and will clearly always be so

not as academic kids would probably hate it = dd1

So pleased to have read this thread.

When my dd started at pre-school at 3 I was asked to attend a meeting with her key worker to go over her "Bunny Hops" book - a record of aims and achievements I believe. I said I couldn't make it, (as I was having some friends over for coffee no less!!). The leader asked me if there was a problem as she had been told I had refused to attend the meeting, that it was important as it was to discuss what we wanted to achieve by the end of the first term. I said that my only aim was to leave her there without her crying and for her to join in playing with the others - I don't think it went down well.

I often feel the most unambitious mummy there - but now I feel I am not so wrong in my aims! She is only 3 fgs!

wow thank god i'm not going mad after all. Have to say in the nursery i manage i think some parents think we are being lazy by not doing worksheets! We are always in the garden making mud pies, finding minibeasts and comparing them to the posters, loads of learning going on but not finished article to take home, sure 1 or 2 of them would prefer a pre-drawn sheet titles minbeasts which their child has coloured in than to hear about the beasties we found in the garden! Obviously we do other things but YSWIM. You have restored my faith that these are in the minority (i have tried to get them on board with photo's etc but with no luck!)

sorry, I wasn't very clear. I think of formal education (as does the research I have read) as being things like the structured systematic teaching of the 3Rs - eg "sit down now at your tables, we are all going to learn counting", as opposed to "Wow, look at all those cars - I wonder how many there are?".

The latter is far more interesting to children and far more useful as it is in the context of real life. Many nurseries and some schools do this sort of play/talk/explore learning very well.

But friends of mine who are teachers of reception and years 1 and 2 say that there is enormous pressure on them to do more and more 'formal' learning which is encroaching on play learning, time. This pressure is from the powers that be, despite the curriculum changes which officially encourage play. They say that ultimately, the pressure is from parents, who worry that their children aren't doing any 'real' learning, and whose concerns influence head teachers and the curriculum. Its a sad state of affairs.

May I recomend that anyone finding this thread interesting read "Toxic Childhood' by Sue Palmer. Its a great thought provoking book.

they dont seem to teach maths in any knid of rote way at dd1s primary

its all fancy learnnig through experimenting

I like learning things by rote it is soooooooo easy

YANBU those women are merely making you feel bad to justify their own existence.

This thread is very interesting, but I have to disagree with some points. I'm very traditional about education and find the play-led theory quite hard to get my head around. I agree that it is beneficial for some children, but other children are more suited to a more formal approach. My ds1 has just gone into year 1 and loves the formality of it. He actually enjoys sitting down (at home as well) and writing sentences and doing sums, which he makes up himself. He also loves being outside and playing and is quite sporty. My view is that the balance has gone a bit too far now.

astrophe, I agree with EVERYTHING you've said on here.

Sometimes I have felt as if I'm living on another planet in my views, for example not sending ds to pre-school for all the free five sessions a week. I certainly have felt I was swimming against the tide in fighting this mad 'preparation for school' thing. In our village there is even a PRE pre-school group where you can take them 'in preparation for being left at pre-school'

My MIL has even said to me that DS would have difficulty settling at school because he had not been to pre-school every day. It makes me so so angry that she had this attitude when all I had done was fight for ds to have as much as possible of his freedom before school kicked in, and to wait till HE was actually more nearly ready.

I've also seen threads on here where mums are actually posting worried that they will be HARMING their child if they don't send them to nursery at one or two years old.

I so agree. Ds is 3.9 I want him to just enjoy being 3.9. Everyone seems totally pre-occupied with 'getting them ready for school'. It is so wrong. Talk about wishing your childhood away.

astrophe, you're so right. my d2 is going to be one of the youngest in her year. this worries me. ironically, i'm actually doing more with her (jsut a bit of phonics) than i did with her sis because of this anxiety that its all too soon for her.

so... i'm doing stuff at home that she's probably not ready for, so that she's less unready for school than she might otherwise be