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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think a company can't demote you after stress leave?

470 replies

GreenHeritier · 19/04/2021 18:30

Hi all, posting here for traffic and have NCed to protect friend's anonymity.

A close friend of mine has been on stress leave for 5 months following a burnout. Her role was a high-pressure, high-responsibility managerial role running a large team. She is now feeling better and had a few conversations with HR about returning to work.

She has requested that they make some tweaks to her role so she can avoid stressful, high-pressure responsibilities like dealing with well-known difficult people or particularly stressful projects.

HR has now said that they can't accommodate her request and that they therefore don't think she is fit to take her original role back as she can't perform the duties the role requires. They have offered her a smaller, low-responsibility role with no managerial duties, but with the same salary as before.

AIBU I think what they are doing is illegal and she should speak to a lawyer?

OP posts:
Dontcallmewifey · 20/04/2021 15:27

She has requested that they make some tweaks to her role so she can avoid stressful, high-pressure responsibilities like dealing with well-known difficult people or particularly stressful projects

Her role was a high-pressure, high-responsibility managerial role running a large team

I've just re-read this. I am sorry, your friend is just not engaging with reality if she thinks that it is in any way acceptable to ask not to do deal with difficult people or projects when she is the manager of a large team. Those are not 'tweaks', those are the core of the job.
Just by making the request, your friend was telling HR that she does not even understand what her job is, let alone being able to do it.

HR would have been quite without their rights to serve her her notice as an employee. Instead she has been offered a job on the same pay.
If she cannot see that she is incredibly lucky, then she has much deeper problems than she realises and does not seem in any way fit to return to work. If I were in HR I would be reconsidering the offer and letting her go. She sounds like an ongoing liability.

If she goes back to work for them in this new role, she really needs to buckle down and prove her worth for that inflated salary she's got.

Original poster
GreenHeritier · 20/04/2021 15:47

[quote hamandcgeese]@GreenHeritier I think will be ok if she retains the same level of title. So if she was senior Blah & cheese manager she needs to retain the senior manager, and maybe become Senior project manager. I personally hate managing staff, it takes so much energy and I have to listen to the snowflakes reasons why it's ok to be late everyday and they over share far too much personal info 😬[/quote]
Her previous title was "Head of X", her company's proposed new title is "Director of X Operations". So there will be a loss in title seniority.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 20/04/2021 15:49

She feels that they tricked her to declare in writing that she was unfit for the job

She really doesn't sound recovered, OP; if she wasn't able to fulfil the role then she wasn't and she's frankly lucky they didn't go down the competency route, with or without a letter from her - especially as it now turns out they even paid someone else to help her out

As my grandad used to say, it seems she wants jam on it Sad

paralysedbyinertia · 20/04/2021 15:54

OP, is this actually a friend or is it you?

Either way, the alternative role sounds like a really good option. It's hard to accept a change in status/seniority, but sometimes it's for the best.

starbrightstarlight8888 · 20/04/2021 15:55

How do you know so much about this friend's work life? You know a lot of detail about this.

Cocksinsocks · 20/04/2021 15:56

Directors are always senior to heads of service??

GreyhoundG1rl · 20/04/2021 15:57

Her previous title was "Head of X", her company's proposed new title is "Director of X Operations". So there will be a loss in title seniority.
What isn't she getting that being called Head of... is not compatible with being unable to do a core part of the job, and delegating it to less senior team members who will get neither the recognition nor salary for doing so?
She sounds deluded.

Dontcallmewifey · 20/04/2021 15:57

So there will be a loss in title seniority

She's lucky not to have loss of employment. And if she keeps on with this mentality and behaviour that is exactly where she is heading.
No job and no good reference. Nothing but a 'friend' who supports her in her unbalanced delusions.

Bluntpencil · 20/04/2021 15:59

She’s in above her capacity in the current role but not willing to accept it. Who will cover the stuff that she doesn’t want to do? Will she take a pay cut to find someone else to do that?

GreyhoundG1rl · 20/04/2021 16:00

@starbrightstarlight8888

How do you know so much about this friend's work life? You know a lot of detail about this.
I think op is "asking for a friend" nudge nudge. Op, seriously, wake up before you're managed out completely. They have every right to send you packing, especially now that you seem to be determined to prove you really don't grasp the remit of what's required of you.
wesowereonabreak · 20/04/2021 16:00

OP, is this actually a friend or is it you?

shhh... or the thread will be removed as the OP has been "identified in real life" Grin

paralysedbyinertia · 20/04/2021 16:01

Yep, director would be senior to a "head of" in any organisation where I've ever worked.

I think the problem is that the individual in question is still quite unwell and therefore isn't thinking straight. This means that they cannot see what is actually a very generous and supportive offer from the organisation, because they are so hyperfocused on what they perceive they are going to lose.

It's hard to take a step down. I think most people can probably relate to that. Nevertheless, it is sometimes the best option.

mosgirl · 20/04/2021 16:09

I would expect a Director to be senior to a Head Of. That being said, I'm now of the view that your 'friend' needs to give her head a wobble. The company are being generous and fair. I've worked in very senior corporate management positions and if she can't see this then she has already been promoted above her ability.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but the number of people on this thread who think the treatment is unreasonable is tiny. Your 'friend' needs to listen.

mosgirl · 20/04/2021 16:10

Sorry, I should have said I do understand the stress may mean your friend isn't thinking clearly. But she really needs to. And if she can't, then how does she think she can go back to the original job which caused her stress?

Volcanoexplorer · 20/04/2021 16:16

I personally think the offer made is very fair. They have suggested a slight change in title, but still gets the seniority of ‘director’, same pay for less stress. What on earth does she think will happen if they agree to her ‘tweaks’ (major changes). The company need these jobs doing and they need someone with the capacity to do them. Who’s going to have to do the difficult stuff if your friend won’t/can’t? She has effectively said she cannot do her job so they have found her another that limits stress, but doesn’t impact on her income. Sorry your friend has been unwell, but she can’t have her cake and eat it. If she needs less stress she will have to deal with the role change. If she doesn’t want to face what she thinks of as a demotion then she’ll have to put up with the stress of the role. It would be like me saying ‘sorry I’m not teaching X,Y,Z class. It’s too stressful. Sorry, I’m not doing parents evening. It’s too stressful’ etc. It’s my bloody job so I get on with it. If I couldn’t do it I’d have to leave. I couldn’t expect school to say okay then.

VaVaGloom · 20/04/2021 16:20

@GreenHeritier She thinks they are planning on offering her old role to the person who's been doing the job as temporary replacement whilst she is out on leave

You and your friend should look at this from the employers perspective. She has been on leave for 5months with stress due to work related issues (which they tried to previously resolve by hiring her an assistant.) That person has been doing the role and coping ok - seems sensible to keep them in that role rather than reinstate someone in the same role that made them ill. If your friend had to strategically solve this problem for the company what would be her idea for the best course of action?

The company have gone out of their way to retain her. Hopefully she can enjoy and perform well in her new role.

Yawnthisway · 20/04/2021 16:25

To be blunt your friend has unfortunately damaged her career by taking 5 months stress leave. If she wants to keep climbing that greasy ladder she should change companies. She is unlikely to be promoted or given additional responsibilities for a long time now,

Standrewsschool · 20/04/2021 16:42

It sounds like the company has been good to her. They listened to her problems with the role, and employed someone to assist her. She then still couldn’t cope and took time off work. The company are now offering her a less stressful role, but on the same pay.

I would consider a Director more senior than head.

HermioneWeasley · 20/04/2021 16:43

“Director” would always be senior to “head of”

Both are senior levels with significant responsibility, expected to manage complex work and dynamically prioritise in order to meet deadlines. It is not possible to take these responsibilities out of a senior role. Your friend needs to know when she’s well off

HongkongphooeyNo1 · 20/04/2021 16:43

Yawn its also likely to follow her on references as well. We're in the process of recruiting and the recruiters include references from former colleagues as well as employers. One of the questions is 'how does the applicant handle stress'.

People think this level of detail cannot be asked but it can. If the referee can substantiate what they say then it is not actionable, which in this case they can.

If I was this person I would take the new job for a year or two and treat it as a reset. Then move to a new company.

Original poster
GreenHeritier · 20/04/2021 16:47

@HermioneWeasley

“Director” would always be senior to “head of”

Both are senior levels with significant responsibility, expected to manage complex work and dynamically prioritise in order to meet deadlines. It is not possible to take these responsibilities out of a senior role. Your friend needs to know when she’s well off

She says that in her organization Head of is senior to Director. I think it depends on the company and there is no universal rule.
OP posts:
Fargonauts · 20/04/2021 16:48

I agree your 'friend' does not sound like they are thinking rationally at all. Either because they have an already present tendancy to be self centered / narcissistic (commonly associated with people who claim to be perfectionists) or their mental health is making them this way! Either way they probably shouldn't be managing people and maybe why they failed in the first place ?

Onesnowynight · 20/04/2021 16:58

All the Directors in my company are above Head of...., just saying

Spidey66 · 20/04/2021 17:00

I think her employers have been more than fair.

TBH it sounds like she wants it all. The title, prestige, money, but without the stress. I think high salaries automatically equate to high stress levels, if you don't want the high stress levels you're going to go without the high levels of pay.

I'd love the pay of someone further up the payscale than me, but because I idont want the stress will never go for their jobs.

TitsOot4Xmas · 20/04/2021 17:05

Who sits on the board? Executive Heads? Nonsense.

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