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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sick of the double standards with erasing women

86 replies

Wiiseoldelf · 18/04/2021 06:23

So I woke up at 4 this morning after a bad dream and fell down a rabbit hole in my phone.

An article on Facebook about a chainsaws original use (childbirth if anyone is wondering) led me to think about my births and then c sections in general.

What's the history of a c-section?

Anyway this led me to Wikipedia and this article en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesarean_section

Pregnant person is the terminology throughout. We're fucking women. Only women have uterus' that can be sliced open. I then had a look at the closest male equivalent, vasectomy I thought, and as expected, men, male, man.

Just ranting somewhere I know some people will understand

OP posts:
Chanjer · 18/04/2021 20:48

@EnidSpyton

I do agree with very much of what you wrote but not in this exact context. It probably isn't something that I am as aware of or alert to as yourself though I admit.

On the issue of the change in language removing legal protection in the example you gave again I just don't see it. If you are discriminated against for being pregnant then you have automatically been discriminated against for being female. Pregnant person means biological woman, it can't mean anything else

Morethanwordsonapage · 18/04/2021 20:56

@EnidSpyton

Women are always being asked to accommodate the needs of others before their own. To be quiet and listen. To stand aside and make space. To be kind. To be inclusive.

This is how the erasure of women from society has always happened and will continue to happen. The same demands are not made of men.

The current push to make the world inclusive for the tiny number of people who choose to live their lives as the opposite gender (not sex, because biological sex cannot be changed) is fuelled by misogyny, and the fact that many women don’t recognise this is disturbing.

Sex and gender are not the same thing.

Women are discriminated against in society due to our sex.

We bear children.

We can be penetrated by a penis.

We have periods.

We are physically lighter and smaller than men.

These sex based biological differences are the cornerstone of why we are ‘the second sex’ despite the fact that we’re the majority of the world population.

Erasing sex based language and focusing on our identities being based on gender (social construct) rather than sex (biology) is dangerous because it is our biology that is the root of our oppression as women. Downplaying that by suggesting we can all choose to be whoever we want to be opens the door for the realities of women’s sex based oppression to be dismissed, denied and erased.

Trans women are not women. They can never be women, because you cannot change your biological sex. Claiming that you are a woman because you have changed your gender identity is misogyny because it suggests that the experience of being a woman is nothing but a social construct. It isn’t. Transwomen should have every right to live their lives as they wish safely and without discrimination. I am
not suggesting anything otherwise. But this right does not give them the right to erase women and our sex based rights and needs in the process.

So many women have internalised the patriarchy to the point where they genuinely believe that this issue doesn’t threaten them, and this is truly worrying. We need to stand up, speak out and protect ourselves. If the word woman becomes erased, the legal protections designed to protect women are erased. And if you think this is dramatic or illogical or ridiculous, I suggest you wake up and take a good look around you. I received a cervical screening leaflet yesterday where more space was spent explaining how trans people could access services than how women could. And yet women are over 50% of the population...and trans? I can’t imagine it’s more than 1%. The erasure is already happening and I’m afraid this is just the beginning.

^^^^
Copied this whole piece as it’s so elegantly put it should be read it again, in my opinion, as a woman.

WerkWerkWerkWerkWerkWerkWerk · 18/04/2021 21:41

My concern will always be what those with power may do with the ever shifting categories.
It concerns me to imagine what could be done to 'improve equality' under the guise of inclusiveness. Women's survival rates of female specific illnesses, equal pay, life chances - how far can the lines be blurred before we realise it's become smoke and mirrors.
The same applies to any 'disadvantaged' portion of society who find their identities being diluted into a homogeneous soup.
Words matter, they are important; even the origin of 'woman', literally of man, hints at the struggle behind that label. Born from a system of oppression; we would do well to never take it as read that we cannot go back to how we were.

MayYouLiveInInterestingTimes · 18/04/2021 22:29

I’d like to know why, when the vast majority of trans people are female to male, all of the attention is on the few trans male to female. And all of the pressure is on forcing biological females to give up their sex-based spaces, that exist for biological reasons. I’d also like to know why biological females had to fight for centuries to gain those spaces, but along comes this tiny group of biological transitioning male-to-females and they have never had to fight, we’re just told to make way the moment they have a fancy for them. Or else we are - shock horror - ‘phobic’, and worse - can be threatened with rape and death by those same people with impunity. Too many biological females are ‘phobic’ of biological males for bloody good reason.

Perhaps that’s why the majority of trans are female changing to male in fact.

SylvieHortensis · 18/04/2021 22:37

I'd like to know how many transpeople there are. In my workplace, community, life (all 50+ years of it) there are the grand total of none.

Where are they and why do they have so much power?

CurbsideProphet · 18/04/2021 22:42

YANBU.
I'm currently having IVF and the clinic is very clear that I'm a woman, not a cervix haver and / or menstruator. I wish other corners of life were so accepting that biological sex is more important than feelings.

Quaagars · 19/04/2021 01:19

I'd like to know how many transpeople there are. In my workplace, community, life (all 50+ years of it) there are the grand total of none

Not sure what your point is here - what has how many trans people you personally have known got to do with anything?

Where are they and why do they have so much power?

Where are they? Again, not sure what you mean there. Just because you personally at the age of 50 plus don't know any (grand total of none, your words) doesn't mean they don't exist Confused
Where are they?
Out and about living their lives like people tend to do.

DontBeRidiculous · 19/04/2021 01:46

I don't see the need to change language to avoid offending a tiny fraction of the world. Males are men, females are women. Dress how you want, portray yourself as you like. I really couldn't care less. But it's ridiculous to change language in clunky, messy, nonsensical ways just to make a few sensitive souls feel better about themselves.

The rest of us shouldn't have to bend ourselves into pretzels to avoid people being confronted with the fact that they happened to be born with a male or female body.

Quaagars · 19/04/2021 02:21

@DontBeRidiculous

I don't see the need to change language to avoid offending a tiny fraction of the world. Males are men, females are women. Dress how you want, portray yourself as you like. I really couldn't care less. But it's ridiculous to change language in clunky, messy, nonsensical ways just to make a few sensitive souls feel better about themselves.

The rest of us shouldn't have to bend ourselves into pretzels to avoid people being confronted with the fact that they happened to be born with a male or female body.

I was kind of agreeing up until a "few sensitive souls." If you're not trans then surely you have no idea what that entails. Dismissing people who are trans as sensitive souls seems a bit Hmm
mustlovegin · 19/04/2021 06:55

How long do we think it will be before some wokal edits it back?

Lots of activists on wikipedia (and all over SM). The key is persistence to edit it back after it's been edited back Grin

SylvieHortensis · 19/04/2021 07:04

Quaagars - my point is clear but I'll explain it more for you. I know there are 30+ million females in the UK, I have no idea how many transpeople there are. They are not visible but they and their allies are vocal. Why do what must be a tiny minority of people get to trample over the rights of 30+ million girls and women? Why do they have so many high profile advocates?

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