NDN - how she screams at her children

[PoppyWoods]

I live in a semi. NDN are young couple with a 4 and 2 year old. I appreciate these ages can be difficult, stressful and tiring but on a daily basis we hear mum screaming at the top of her voice. She's not fussy who she screams at, could be her husband, kids or dog. Often we can't hear what the commotion is about and it's usually over in a few minutes.

Anyway today I was in our bathroom upstairs (our bathrooms are next to each other) windows open and I heard a commotion next door. It appears that the 4 year old wet herself and she was taking her to the bathroom to get cleaned up. She was screaming and calling her 'a stupid bitch' while the girl was wailing loudly.

But the thing that shocked me the most was that within 5 minutes I could hear the little girl in the bath giggling and laughing. Mum was playing with her and singing songs to her. The speed from screaming and wailing to giggling and singing was incredible.

AIBU to think its sad that this child is so used to being shouted at that she recovers so quickly? If anyone spoke to me that way it would take me ages to recover.

OP, I assume you understand that being a 'lovely, professional family' doesn't make abuse impossible or excuse it. I get the vibe from your posts that you would prefer not to have to intervene. But you heard her scream at a four-year-old and call her a stupid bitch for wetting herself. You know, really, that the potential effects of growing up like that have to weigh more heavily than your discomfort.

The laughing afterwards may just mean, as a PP said, that she knows fine well to (force herself to) snap out of it when mummy requires.

@MitheringSunday

OP, I assume you understand that being a 'lovely, professional family' doesn't make abuse impossible or excuse it. I get the vibe from your posts that you would prefer not to have to intervene. But you heard her scream at a four-year-old and call her a stupid bitch for wetting herself. You know, really, that the potential effects of growing up like that have to weigh more heavily than your discomfort.

The laughing afterwards may just mean, as a PP said, that she knows fine well to (force herself to) snap out of it when mummy requires.

You're right.

My gut tells me I must do something. I don't want to but know it's the right thing to do. I can't stop thinking about that gorgeous girl next door.

I will. Thank you and thank you all for your advice

@SE13Mummy

You've got choices about how to respond to this but turning a blind eye isn't one of them. If the NDN is someone you get on with, you could pop over, say you heard lots of shouting and wondered if there's something you could do to help e.g. take the children to the park for a bit, go for a walk with NDN so she's got someone to chat to etc. If you don't know them well enough to chat to, or don't have the confidence to offer, you could contact the child's school/nursery (if known) and share your concern with their designated safeguarding lead. As both children are under five you could get in touch with the local health visiting team and share your concern with them. An alternative would be to contact the police or children's services and raise concern about the children's welfare or to report via the NSPCC - it's possible to do so anonymously online, by email or on the phone. The website explains what will happen.

Thank you. Some really good advice here.

I will speak to the HV team tomorrow, I think that's the perfect way to raise concerns.

Again, thanks x

Good luck, OP. I hope you're heard. Consider turning elsewhere if you don't feel the HV response is satisfactory.

I can speak from experience of the demoralising effect of a sense of not having mattered enough to adults for them to have stuck their necks out and their noses in.

There used to be a guy who lived next door to me with his 3 kids. I think the oldest girl was about 8, the boy 6/7 and then a little 2/3 yr old girl. He used to shout loads at them, often it sounded like he was at the end of his tether. He'd also smoke weed and play his music so loud that I could here every word in my house. Often the older two kids would be allowed to go to the park at the bottom of the road but then I'd hear them shouting to be let back in but he couldn't hear cause of his music.

I called SS and the police a few times. Once was because he called the oldest a nosy bitch "it's no wonder nobody loves you" I remember my dad saying to me once that I was a prickly little hedgehog that was impossible to like and he only loved me cause he's my dad and has to. This was about 4 months after my mum died. When I phoned SS, I said that what my dad said to me has stuck with me for 25 years, and I can imagine it being the same for the girl next door.

As things turned out, he had been given custody when his ex was arrested for neglect (she actually absconded and we had the police round here looking for her). He was really struggling and SS offered him loads of support. The calls I made helped them know that he needed more help. To be fair to him, when he wasn't losing it, he sounded like a great dad. He moved out after a few months, but I did notice a support worker going round more often and the screaming/music/weed smoking did improve.

I wish him and the kids nothing but the best, but I have no doubts that I did the right thing.

It might feel easier to pass on concerns via HV but it will be less effective. Third party concerns to SS are not handled the same way. Much more likely to act if information is shared directly by concerned individual. Professionals are expected to jump through hoops including gaining consent from the family before their forms are taken seriously ( sounds ridiculous I know). HV will be grateful for info but will ask you to ring SS directly.

@GreyhoundG1rl I wasn't asking if she was nice i was responding to an earlier comment. Sorry new here and probably haven't copied it properly.
I did let the relevant authorities know.

I don't know where I stand on this, to be honest.
I have two kids, now teenagers.
They've both been utter nightmares when younger, have ended up yelling and we have thin walls with the neighbours.
Just because you're shouting doesn't mean anything's wrong.
Although swearing at them and calling a bitch definitely wrong.
If they're singing and being fine just after I wouldn't be all call the cops like some on here are sounding.

It’s not even close to threshold on what we’ve been told.

Even a check would do little without a prolonged and proven history.

By all means log it with them but don’t expect too much.

And bizarrely the ‘stupid’ label is more damaging than bitch. Actually labelling the child full stop is the no no. You’re behaving like a stupid bitch... label the behaviour. Acceptable as it were. You’re talking about the action. It’s a weird set of rules.

I can’t think of a single reason that excuses an adult screaming “stupid bitch” at a 4 year old for wetting themselves. Absolutely disgusting behaviour, that poor child.

A parent that belittles children calling them stupid and making them feel worthless can have a lifelong effect on a child.
Report this to SS and then you know you have done your best for them. DS will have a little chat with Mother and as others have said she will reign herself back in future. The children are too small to have their own voice and need you to help protect them.

I'm loud and can be shouty. My family are the same, it's how I was brought up. I don't think it's a problem in itself. Some people react in a certain way. I say sorry afterwards and this is what pissed me off and this is why. It's quick and done.

You get sulkers and PA arseholes and I couldn't and can't deal with that at all.

The thing is

I get shouty about the thing that's happened. I don't direct it at people. So it's. FGS this place is a tip why does no one do anything until I ask them to. Vs. You have pissed me off you do this that etc

Also.

Calling a little kid s stupid little bitch is awful.
And when they were little I would take myself away if i knew I needed to let off steam/ mutter under my breath when they were not looking.

She is the same with everything by the sounds of it. Dog, dishwasher etc

The kids are happy and they are out with get cheerful etc a lot.

My guess would be she's replicating how her own parents behaved.

I doubt ss will do anything tbh. But I think the words and directing them at a toddler is not on.

Agree that being shouty is not a major concern in itself unless it’s excessive and constant, although it’s not ideal. My first thought was Pnd. I suffered from this with two of mine and it did make me shouty especially after I had Dd as she was such a handful. I could go from shouty to happy in a switch. Only I didn’t realise how short tempered I was until I got help.

But having said that I never directed it towards my dc. Name calling or directing it at a child is definitely not acceptable, No matter what they’d done.

I’d be concerned about this as a child should never be berated for wetting themselves. Yes it’s an inconvenience but to call your child a stupid bitch in such a situation is a big no no.

I’d report it. No, it’s not likely that anything will come of this alone but you don’t know that three other neighbours haven’t reported similar things and yours will be the one that prompts something. Or that yours will help in the future. With safeguarding it’s not up to the reporter to decide what action needs to be taken as a result of the report - you just report it.

I can’t believe some people saying “ooh well she’s not mother of the year but it’s not that bad” - sort yourself out if you think this is in any way ok.

You get sulkers and PA arseholes and I couldn't and can't deal with that at all. The thing is
I get shouty about the thing that's happened. I don't direct it at people. So it's. FGS this place is a tip why does no one do anything until I ask them to. Vs. You have pissed me off you do this that etc

But your first example is passive aggressive? And your shouting could be abusive. I wouldn't tolerate an adult in my house talking to me like that.

Horses for courses.

Probably I wouldn't want to go out with you either

Newsflash! Nobody is perfect!

You don’t know what had happened before- it may have been that the child had been acting up and the accident was the last straw.

Today’s standards of what is abusive seem to be:

• No smacking
• No shouting
• No withdrawing of treats/privileges
• No criticism.

Most adults alive today got shouted at and smacked as kids as it was normal but not all of us walk around traumatised because our parents were mostly sensible and loving in spite of it.

Some of the worst behaved and adjusted kids I’ve seen are those whose parents are the gentlest.

It’s all about balance. Ask yourself if this is constant and how are the children generally?

Look at the whole picture and then use your common sense before deciding whether to get the authorities involved.

“Call the police” or “call Social Services” seems to be the knee jerk response to any parenting that does not meet with an individual’s approval these days.

@WoolieLiberal

Newsflash! Nobody is perfect!

You don’t know what had happened before- it may have been that the child had been acting up and the accident was the last straw.

Today’s standards of what is abusive seem to be:

• No smacking
• No shouting
• No withdrawing of treats/privileges
• No criticism.

Most adults alive today got shouted at and smacked as kids as it was normal but not all of us walk around traumatised because our parents were mostly sensible and loving in spite of it.

Some of the worst behaved and adjusted kids I’ve seen are those whose parents are the gentlest.

It’s all about balance. Ask yourself if this is constant and how are the children generally?

Look at the whole picture and then use your common sense before deciding whether to get the authorities involved.

“Call the police” or “call Social Services” seems to be the knee jerk response to any parenting that does not meet with an individual’s approval these days.

I should add that I’ve never smacked my own kids but have shouted on occasion...

And do you scream at them daily and call them a stupid bitch?

Calling a four year old a stupid bitch is disgusting, poor child.
Does she realise you can hear her? If she puts on a girlish voice when she sees you face to face, the turns into a screaming banshee she sounds unhinged! I’d either report or make a comment about how sound travels and how lovely it was to hear them singing so clearly the other day

Agree with previous poster speaking to the hv is not very effective as they will have to refer on to social care and it's third hand information. They may well tell you you need to contact social care yourself anyway .
Dh once heard our neighbour shouting at her vulnerable mother and he went round the next morning and said he wouldn't be a good neighbour if he didn't check everything was ok and have never heard shouting since and it wasn't awkward after- you'd need to do this quickly though

A lot of parents of small children have lost their usual support or coping strategies and this is often the result.

I have zero support with my DD. Never have and never will. I’m under extreme stress and my mental health is failing. And yet I’ve NEVER called my DD a ‘stupid bitch’. Such a cop out.

I called SS on a work colleague.
She was really struggling with her DC, I suspected ASD in child due to behaviour but could have just been no boundaries, no consequences and self confessed 'gentle parenting'. I did point out several times that you can be 'gentle' but still set boundaries etc
Anyway, she told me and several other staff something that really worried me, the DC had injuries caused by dealing with a melt down. I mulled it over for a while and left an anonymous complaint about her and her DH.
SW called her and asked her her version of the complaint and also spoke to the DC school.
That was it, she was warned if anything else was to be reported they would have to pick it back up and do a home visit.

She thought it was a neighbour who reported her because she admitted there was a lot of screaming and shouting in her home, both her and the DC.
I guess I wanted her to think about HER behaviour as well as her DHs, she wouldn't face it that her DC might be on the spectrum and she also wouldn't ask for help even though she admitted to SW that she struggled with her DC.
I no longer work with her, I only hope she changed.

That was it, she was warned if anything else was to be reported they would have to pick it back up and do a home visit.
That's a bit loose, isn't it? Nobody else reporting doesn't mean anything has changed or that all is well