to believe the Mumsnet High Earners?

[LigPatin]

Every time there's a thread about earnings, there's always multiple posters who claim that most people on the thread must be inflating or plain lying about their salaries.

Whilst I recognise that people lie, especially on anonymous forums, I find it quite sad that people prefer to dismiss these posts as lies rather than take inspiration/education from them (or just not care).

I come from a poor background - we never had enough money to the point that food and electricity use was rationed. We weren't on the streets, but that was a looming possibility. We lived (mostly) within the midlands.

I fell into nannying as a career (having dreamed of being a primary school teacher) and my first job was in Kensington. The housekeeper had been gossiping about the rent on the house we worked in - it was £3k a WEEK. This was 2012-ish. I remember wondering how on Earth anyone could afford paying £200k+ a year on rent alone, when - in my mind - earning just £50k was amazingly rich.

I remember walking through Kensington and Knightsbridge and Chelsea and seeing thousands and thousands and thousands of these houses, all huge and grand and all presumably commanding similar rent or sale value than the one I worked in. They were all clearly lived in and used.

Perhaps it was arrogance, or naivety, but I figured that if there were enough people who could afford to pay £1k, £2k, £5k+ a week on rent (or buy million pound houses), then there must be a lot of money out there to be earned, and I couldn't see any reason as to why I couldn't find a way to get a share of that money.

That's sort of how I feel about these earning threads - hundreds of people are posting about their high salaries and instead of scoffing that they must be sad-sacks who hang out on Mumsnet to lie about their lifestyles - I think it's inspiring and encouraging to see so many women out there making amazing money and securing their futures.

FWIW - I was 21 back in Kensington, amazed at the £3k a week rent. I'm coming up to 30 now and my average yearly income is about £120k. I remind myself every day of how lucky I am, and how 21 year old me would have been incredulous. Though I'm, of course, absolutely nowhere near being able to rent a £3k a week house

YANBU. Wealthy people exist and a lot of them are on MN.
It's important to remember that MN isn't representative of real life in general though.

I wish I'd known, or more importantly believed, earlier that I was worth as much as the men and could earn as much. I would have found it inspirational as a young woman and I hope it is.

A friend's daughter has just finished training as a Norland nanny and she tells me she is expecting 70K (and accommodation and spending) as her first salary at 21/22 and I believe her. She knows her worth and what she can command and has the self confidence and belief to expect it. I wish I'd been like that at that age.

There is a formula to making a decent amount.
I don't understand why more people don't see it.

Right now, if you study finance, IT, IB, Law, or Medicine, you're going to make a decent amount of money. If you want to move into management, get an MBA.

You network , do a good job, and get promotions or move companies for a larger salary. bonuses, and stock options.

Then there are options to become partner, or director, start an agency, or specialised consulting.

I did this in IT. I have a few degrees plus certifications. I'm not in my 30s though. Add about 30 to that. I truly love what I do.

It takes all sorts to keep the world turning JoeBlack066. I think people who go into medicine or teaching have vocations and like working with people. But those jobs in the public sector are settled and secure with generous pensions paid for by all our taxes. Are they as well paid as they should be? No, many are not, but outwith the Southeast and London, they will be better paid than the majority of "ordinary" jobs. In the rural west where I live, teachers and nurses are considered quite well paid compared to the majority working for NMW in leisure/hospitality during the holiday months.

When I said "the talent" I was not being disparaging, just referring to the vanishingly rare ability to write a hit TV show or create something like an iPhone, or conceive a new business -- from scratch. Those individuals are rare as hen's teeth, and compensated accordingly.

I upped my earnings after becoming a mumsnetter. I understand your point OP as I had a similar realisation. Just wish I’d had it at 21!

Moving in your career is not all about working hard. Of course people on lower wages work hard but if you’re money motivated you usually have to be proactive and always be looking for the next thing. Often this means taking a risk, taking yourself out of your comfort zone and moving companies.

Clearly not all roles are £100k roles but if you want to earn big money you often need to be proactive about it

For example, I took on a junior role post SAHM 12 years ago. Had pre kids earnt 33k. Stayed in that job 3 years because it worked with kids. As kids got a bit older decided to move on and decided to take a job on £28k in a role I wasn’t that into but got me up the scale into slightly better money. Did that for a year and kept my eyes open for a role I really wanted and moved for £37k stayed there 2 years and then moved to current job for £38k, could see that had potential so got promoted there onto £50k. Pay rise to £53k and for the last few months have been searching market for next move which will be £65-68k. To do that I have to move. With an eye on my job after I’ll be looking for 3 years on that role before moving to look at the £80-90k roles.

It’s not that I am better than other people, I have team members who are far more talented than I am but I am prepared to take a risk, take myself out of my comfort zone and essentially fake it until I make it.

There are plenty of jobs where you can work very long or unsociable hours without being paid very much. Nurses on night shifts, supermarket workers, people running pubs etc etc.
Then there are also very well paid jobs with a good work life balance. My DH did a degree, spent 3 years qualifying as an accountant, then 10 years working for a big accountancy firm. We now have our own business and he pulls in an average of 200k a year. We don’t pay huge amounts of tax as we only take out what we need and put the rest into pensions and business investments. He works roughly 9 till 5 with 6 weeks holiday and odd extra days whenever he needs to. He also can do school pick up drop off when required and can schedule dentist appointments etc when he pleases.
It’s very convenient to say, I could earn more but don’t want the hassle without knowing what is out there if you want it.

@wesowereonabreak

What is harmful is what has been tried in the past, capping salaries and rewards. Actually, you can still try today: cap the performance bonuses and commission in any company and see what happens.

Agree to an extent. The problem is when failing companies are given massive taxpayer handouts. Eg, see the last financial crisis. And that isn't a minor little kink in the system. It's a massive one, which means every X years millions of normal families get in deep deep shit, while the people who put them there receive million dollar bonuses as per usual. Let's have one capitalist system for everyone.

What struck me most on this thread (and has been pointed out by quite a few others) was the posters explaining why they couldn't believe the high earners, because they assumed they wouldn't have the time or the inclination to post. Which very much shows that we should be teaching our daughters what the reality of working in high powered jobs is actually like, not just letting them say, "oh well, I wouldn't want to do that anyway."

@Smileyfacesmileyface That's why I don't even bother putting my husband's total compensation on these threads and our combined income as no one would believe it.
Beyond the gender issue (women commonly expected to be low earners), it sounds like some people think we are in a communist regime where no one can do well in life. Really sad to have so low aspirations. Maybe some things need to change in Education, to educate children and students on various career opportunities and how to get there (I realise we are lucky as we come from a very privileged background).

To those saying they don't talk money with friends. We don't either but we know very well what each type of job and job title is being paid in our industry. We also know which companies/boutiques pay well and those who don't. It's very transparent as people tend to move from one place to the other.

@Nataliafalka yes I agree, its often moving companies and getting access to additional qualifications and courses that can push you into the next role and pay jump. Not always easy to do, especially when you're aware you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone.

Also, lets cut out this kind of crap while we're at it. The UK's corporate tax rate is 19%. Publish your UK profits (which they dont) and pay what you owe or shut down. Like every other business.
www.ethicalconsumer.org/retailers/amazons-uk-tax-just-3-despite-surge-profits

I used to earn $150k as a nanny in New York, age 30. It can be a lucrative job if you find the right family.

To those saying they don't talk money with friends. We don't either but we know very well what each type of job and job title is being paid in our industry. We also know which companies/boutiques pay well and those who don't. It's very transparent as people tend to move from one place to the other.

But surely not all your friends work in the same industry as you? Amongst my friends for general comparison I have people who worked in hospitality, nurses, teachers, shop workers, beauticians, people working in IT, receptionists and those who run their own businesses. Those I work alongside I would be able to have a good idea of their incomes but the rest would be complete guesses.

I find it strange that people queue up to post their salaries on here at all to be honest. Same as how much you have in savings or owe on your mortgage. I never would.
What does knowing financial info about random internet strangers add to your life really?

I disagree with this sentiment, whilst I understand it may seem pointless, I think people should be way more open about what they earn and what they pay out, it may make people understand others a bit more (and how shit some wages really are, I think women in particular not talking about it has been one of the reasons they accept less pay for same jobs). It’s likely most in your circles are similar to you so it’s good to see differences.

Like all those threads where people say no one could possibly live in London without earning £100k minimum each. And it blows my mind, because I don’t know anyone who earns any where near that much and they live there fine.

@PegPeople Virtually all our friends in this country work in our broad industry (investment banking, asset management and private equity). London is not very diverse... However in our home country (we are from an EU country) we have friends in every type of job/industry.

Your first job was in Kensington? How did you get that? Just off the train from the Midlands in rags and said gissa job in Kensington? I would like to be inspired by your story but you haven't told it. You went straight from rationing food to nannying for some of the richest people in the country and 9 years later full of nannying experience you bring in 120k. Tell us how and I'm sure we'll be inspired.

London is extremely diverse.

@LizBennet

I’ve looked 5 times for the point and I’m still missing it 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’ve found it! It’s on the end of this goady stick the OP is waving about. Watch out, she might take your eye out.

The depressing thing about this thread is the lack of imagination displayed by some posters.

Quick summary: I originally intended to go into academia, saw that other people were making a lot of money in IT, upskilled, took a lot of risks (i.e. moving jobs a lot, gambling on 'fake it 'til you make it'-type roles).

I work in fintech - so a combination of two historically well-paid sectors, in finance and IT/innovation - and I'm now on £80k gross, ~£100k including bonuses (as I'm not client-facing, I'll never pull in the big bonus bucks, but that's fine).

I could push myself a little more to go into a C-suite role, but I don't really want the managerial responsibilities that would go with the extra cash.

I'm from a very average, lower middle-class Scottish background, state-educated and although I did go to an RG university, it wasn't Oxbridge.

I didn't even KNOW jobs like mine existed when I was growing up, so I think people, and especially women, talking about these roles, is pretty important.

(And, for what it's worth, I don't work silly hours, either - 45 average, 55 on a bad week, particularly if I have meetings with other time zones.)

@UrAWizHarry

Good for you love. Have a biscuit.

This..

[quote NCforthispurpose]@PegPeople Virtually all our friends in this country work in our broad industry (investment banking, asset management and private equity). London is not very diverse... However in our home country (we are from an EU country) we have friends in every type of job/industry.[/quote]
I suppose if you're all in the same industry that makes sense although I'm surprised you don't have friends in other job areas such as people from the gym, school mum friends or hobby acquaintances. I would have thought living in London would lead to quite a diverse pool of friends.

Do you talk salaries with those from your home country or has it not come up as a conversation? I'm genuinely fascinated so many people seem to.know about the financial status of their friends and family so intimately.

That's not my experience at all. I work in London and have worked in investment banks. I have friends who are everything - teachers, TV producer, supermarket worker, marketing, HR, loads of different IT types of course, SAHPs, unemployed, pub landlady, retired, never worked, librarian, writer, quite a few people who work in pharmaceutical companies, couple of academics, scientists,
barrister, trader, solicitor, lettings agent, builder, electrician, runs a shop, policep - and that was just off the top of my head thinking of friends, family, book club and people I have seen recently. Amongst the majority of women I know locally don't work though which is a shame, to me.

And of all the people in fields you know, from beauticians to doctors and plumbers to entrepreneurs, there's a wide range. In general the best earn most. The hairdresser renting a chair in a salon in my little town doesn't have the same talent for making people look good or setting trends as a top stylist with their name on the marquee in the West End. There are top surgeons and lesser surgeons. A good craftsman locally is always in demand, and earns well, but can only sell his or her time once. A successful business manager creates a model within which a product or service can be rolled out, replicated and scaled up to multiply profit.

@MayorGoodwaysChicken

I sympathise with the point OP is making which is that just because someone says they earn a lot, there is no reason to assume they’re lying. A lot of people earn big salaries! It’s similarly annoying that anyone whose baby isn’t awake all night is lying according to many people on Mumsnet. So many times I’ve seen posters state with absolutely certainty that ‘anyone who says their baby sleeps through the night is lying’. Um no actually my baby slept 1-11 hours every night reliably from 13 weeks old. Sorry if my experience differs from yours but please don’t accuse me of lying! As with salaries I fail to understand how anyone would get anything out of lying to randoms online. In real life maybe but it achieves literally nothing on here where you’re just a faceless poster.

Agreed. @LigPatin Op, you worked incredibly hard and I think that is truly inspiring. As someone has younger siblings who are slowly starting to think about University options, is that a route that you took?