Can parent paying CMS force me to pay back the money because he’s lost his job?

[Ostryga]

Just found out today DD’s dad has lost his job and is stopping maintenance payments (week before he is due to pay!)

Apparently he lost his job in December and now seems to think that CMS are going to get me to pay back the money he has sent for Dd. Surely that isn’t right? Dd doesn’t suddenly become free because he’s not working!

I can weather the loss, but it is a blow and does make things tighter. I certainly can’t afford to pay him back.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

Ah yes, super easy to find a job at the moment.

There are plenty of jobs advertised around here - they might not be what he wants to do, but they definitely exist.

I mean, I'm not saying this is his fault but really, the whole system is shit. I know people who have to just accept receiving £7 per week in child support while their ex's work cash-in-hand.

We don't take child support seriously enough in this country. It should be a bill/debt like anything else. If he didn't pay his council tax, he'd find himself in court - the same should go for child support payments.

Sorry, he's working cash in hand? Or have you just made that up?

@Hazelnutlatteplease

What would happen if they were together and he lost his job? The same thing.

Nope. Not the same thing at all

If you are made redundant, you get a notice period and redundancy pay. You know in 1 or 6 months time you will have a drop in income. You can cancel subscriptions make savings etc. You know it's coming.

You quite your job. That's a choice but hopefully as a couple you know it's going to/might happen and you can plan accordingly.

There is uproar and sad daily mail stories when Thomas cook lost their income with 1 weeks notice due to shocking and completely unpredictable circumstances.

But mothers (and its usually women) have to suck up losing income with no notice or even income they already had.

Of course it's the same. If they were together and he lost his job he wouldn't be contributing anything then either. We don't know if he was made redundant do we? He may have been there under two years and even if it's more a lot of people get pennies.

Unfortunately she does have to suck it up just like everyone else who has children with someone who suddenly becomes unemployed.

Sorry, he's working cash in hand? Or have you just made that up?

No - that's not what I said at all.

I said: I know people who have to just accept receiving £7 per week in child support while their ex's work cash-in-hand

It was an example of how fucked up the system is.

I appreciate the system is fucked up, I've suffered it from both sides however someone who is not earning cannot realistically pay at the same level they did when they were earning. Just as if a resident parent lost their job they wouldn't spend the same amount they prev did.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

I appreciate the system is fucked up, I've suffered it from both sides however someone who is not earning cannot realistically pay at the same level they did when they were earning. Just as if a resident parent lost their job they wouldn't spend the same amount they prev did.

I wonder if these non-resident parents decide not to pay their council tax or electric bill?

Of course not, because there are consequences if they don't pay those things. The same consequences should be in place if they don't support their kids.

Well if you've lost your job either your partner pays or your benefits do, your benefits pay your child maintenance too. Yes not much...

I don't understand where you think the money should come from?

CMS could easily have notified my in January of change of circs and given me notice so that I had time to prepare.

Her dad obviously could have done this, but the reason we use CMS (and the reason they exist) is because we don’t have any communication. He is impossible.

And no, I don’t think he should pay less because he’s lost his job. I lost my job due to covid, Dd didn’t cost a single penny less shockingly!

Hahaha what a pillock, no you won't have to pay it back, tell him to do one.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Well if you've lost your job either your partner pays or your benefits do, your benefits pay your child maintenance too. Yes not much...

I don't understand where you think the money should come from?

Well, people go to prison and end up in court for not paying other debts, why should child support be any different?

The government are quite happy to chase people for not paying their council tax bills, after all.

I suspect if the government had to pay out for child support and get "paid back" by the NRP, they'd be much quicker to do something about it when they don't pay up.

@Ostryga

CMS could easily have notified my in January of change of circs and given me notice so that I had time to prepare.

Her dad obviously could have done this, but the reason we use CMS (and the reason they exist) is because we don’t have any communication. He is impossible.

And no, I don’t think he should pay less because he’s lost his job. I lost my job due to covid, Dd didn’t cost a single penny less shockingly!

Where do you think he should find the money?

Who funded you when you were unemployed?

CMS are completely to blame here though. He told them. They decided not to do anything for 3 months. I think in these circumstances CMS should make up the shortfall not take the money back off you in the form of reduced maintenance.

He doesn't have the money to pay though. Until he gets another job or benefits I don't see how he can pay. Unless he is forced to sell his possessions if he has any?

I wonder if these non-resident parents decide not to pay their council tax or electric bill?
Of course not, because there are consequences if they don't pay those things. The same consequences should be in place if they don't support their kids.

If someone loses their job they would be entitled to some benefits that would help with the bills.
If they didn't pay the electric bill they would get disconnected.
Most of the time when people have bills that they can't pay, their payments are reduced to an amount that they can afford.

What do you think the consequences should be if they don't have the money to pay child support?

I'm not suggesting that it isn't important, but if they don't have the money then they can't pay, and yes, that will obviously impact the resident parent's income.

Well, people go to prison and end up in court for not paying other debts, why should child support be any different?
You actually want parents being sent to prison when they have lost their job because they can no longer pay child support? That's more about vengeance than it is money. They can't earn money in prison and their chances of employment when they come out are reduced.

And no, I don’t think he should pay less because he’s lost his job. I lost my job due to covid, Dd didn’t cost a single penny less shockingly!
So when you lose your job you don't make any adjustments to your expenditure?
When our income goes down we have to spend less and that includes the amount of money we spend on our children. They do cost less when we have less.

If someone loses their job they would be entitled to some benefits that would help with the bills.

Yes, I understand that.

If they didn't pay the electric bill they would get disconnected.

Exactly, a consequence. And they'd have to pay the electric company what they owed before they got their electric switched back on. Or the electric company could take them to court for refusing to pay.

Most of the time when people have bills that they can't pay, their payments are reduced to an amount that they can afford.

If people don't pay their council tax bills, or their rent, or their mortgage, those bills don't get reduced. People who don't pay those things get taken to court or lose their homes if it goes on too long.

What do you think the consequences should be if they don't have the money to pay child support?

They should owe the government, and if they don't pay, the government should be able to take them to court for child neglect or abandonment. In America, if people don't pay, they lose their driving license and end up spending time on prison.

I'm not suggesting that it isn't important, but if they don't have the money then they can't pay, and yes, that will obviously impact the resident parent's income.

Then they should go into debt as a result - the government should pay the RP and the NRP should owe the government, with consequences if they can't or won't pay.

It happens for other bills (council tax) so why can't child support be the same?

You actually want parents being sent to prison when they have lost their job because they can no longer pay child support?

Not right away, no. But why shouldn't there be serious consequences for not supporting your children?

That's more about vengeance than it is money. They can't earn money in prison and their chances of employment when they come out are reduced.

Then they can use that as a motivator to get a job. I'm not saying one month of non-payment = jail time but there needs to be a real-life consequence for not supporting your kids. They're not optional. They need feeding and clothing whether you work or not.

Yeah, you can be a really supportive parent in prison. Your child will really benefit from that won't they?

I mean, much much more likely to get a good job and pay more maintenance post prison.

They are all shit at their job, ever single bloody one of them so clearly not their fault but a completely flawed system with equally flawed training! After 3 years I gave up then they kindly wiped the several thousand pounds arrears that they promised they wouldn't. Not fit for purpose and more needs to be done.

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Yeah, you can be a really supportive parent in prison. Your child will really benefit from that won't they?

I mean, much much more likely to get a good job and pay more maintenance post prison.

You're not being a supportive parent if you're not paying for your child, either.

I'm not saying prison is the ideal solution by any means, but there really needs to be more consequences for people who don't pay their child support costs.

Like I've said, other bills still have to be paid when you lose your child, so why do SO many people see child support as being totally optional?

People pay their council tax because if they don't, they can be taken to court.
They pay their electric bill and gas bill, because if they don't, they get disconnected or taken to court.
People pay their rent and mortgage, because if they don't, they become homeless or get evicted.

Where are the consequences for people who don't pay child support? There aren't any. So people continue to get away with it. There needs to be consequences in place - not sure what's so controversial about that.

No, not financially but you know if you're locked up you can actually spend time with your child which apparently means fuck all when you're an nrp.

I don't know why people see it as optional, I don't, but you cannot pay what you do not have. It's as simple as that. Shit happens.

I don't agree with avoiding it, refusal to pay it or playing the system, but if someone loses their job then that's unfortunate and there's nothing you can do. I will never ever agree that someone should be imprisoned for being unemployed.

I've said before I think the gov should cough up and the parent should pay it back, like any other debt, but I will never agree with imprisonment because it is never in the best interest of the child.

If you're not locked up that should say

I will never ever agree that someone should be imprisoned for being unemployed.

But they're not in jail for being unemployed. They're in jail for not paying their debts. It happens with council tax and other bills - why is child support any different?

Of course not a first resort, or even a second or third resort, but there should be a real consequence for not supporting your children. Maybe not jail, but SOMETHING, surely?

@sunflowersandbuttercups

I will never ever agree that someone should be imprisoned for being unemployed.

But they're not in jail for being unemployed. They're in jail for not paying their debts. It happens with council tax and other bills - why is child support any different?

Of course not a first resort, or even a second or third resort, but there should be a real consequence for not supporting your children. Maybe not jail, but SOMETHING, surely?

Well they are aren't they - that's the reason they cant pay. Not because they don't want to, but because they can't.

So why not make things even worse by making them completely unemployable and stop them seeing their child. Excellent

I've already said what I think should happen.

So why not make things even worse by making them completely unemployable and stop them seeing their child. Excellent.

Well, that's fair enough.

I've already said what I think should happen.

So they'd owe the government instead, which is great in theory.

However, I don't think the government would let people get away with owing them thousands of pounds without jail being the ultimate consequence, though. People already go to jail for things like tax evasion, so I can't see them treating child support any differently.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

So why not make things even worse by making them completely unemployable and stop them seeing their child. Excellent.

Well, that's fair enough.

I've already said what I think should happen.

So they'd owe the government instead, which is great in theory.

However, I don't think the government would let people get away with owing them thousands of pounds without jail being the ultimate consequence, though. People already go to jail for things like tax evasion, so I can't see them treating child support any differently.

You don't go to prison for other debts though do you? It's not the same as tax evasion.

I will never believe that taking a parent away from a child, and taking any future possibilities if financial support away, out of spite, essentially.

It's not in the best interest of the child. That quite often gets forgotten when talking about maintenance.