To ask if these parents are abusive?

[cally8019]

Me and DH disagree on this. I am sympathetic, but can understand. He thinks it out of order and something needs to be done about it.

DD2 has a friend who has just turned 18. They have been friends through prep/senior ( this girl left in yr11)so we have known the family over 13 years.

They have an DS who is 21 and then their DD who is 18. The DS the “ideal” child- top marks in exams, good uni and job etc and has flown through life and is doing well.

Their DD? Struggled through school with bullying due to a disability (which me and DH weren’t even aware of), missed a lot of school because of it, failed her GCSES and hasn’t done anything since and turned to drugs last year.

DD has been supportive of her friend (which we are very proud of) and has helped her through difficulty and has helped her come clean. DD has told me the other friends she had were a rough crowd- stealing from people/shops etc. DD has told us her friend has never stolen anything apart from money for her parents- which obviously is inexcusable but different (not sure if that’s the right word?) then robbing people’s handbags in the street or from shops like these others have. I will note- I do not doubt for a second that DD hasn’t had anything to do with this crowd.

This girls parents had to help her out of debt last year- they still put a roof over her head, help her out etc.

But DD has come home tonight and said her friend has broke down to her today saying she feels she is being emotionally abused.

1. I will say it is clear their eldest child is the “favourite”. While both children have been given the same opportunities in some ways the eldest was pushed hard then the second who needed more support due to her disability but didn’t get it.

1. As mentioned before- me and DH were not aware of this girl having a disability (keeping in mind we have known her parents since the first week DD started reception). One of the reasons this girl gave to DD for being upset is that her parents didn’t even tell members of her family which she feels isn’t fair. I don’t want to disclose said disability (just in case this thread is found) but it’s severe enough for her to need support but not severe enough to be obvious if that makes sense?

1. This is where we head to murky water- according to DD, this girl can’t go anywhere without telling her parents were she is going, what she is doing and with whom. I understand this but I am sympathetic, DH does too but feels her mistakes shouldn’t be used as a noose around her neck when she is genuinely trying to piece her life together and is struggling to continue because she feels her parents don’t recognise her efforts.

The girl is a lovely girl and I do believe she has learnt from her mistakes but at the same time- while I don’t agree with some of the things her parents of done I’m sympathetic at the same time.

DD has asked if she can stay here with us. DH is saying yes (also worth mentioning he was emotionally abused by his parents)- I am undecided

What are everyone’s thoughts??

If my teen had failed exams and taken to drugs and steeling from me you can bet I'd want to know where they are while they living with me. I'd be doing all I could to support my child and to guide them not to get in with an inappropriate group of friends again.

If you think you can support this women emotionally and financially (I would say parent this girl, but she's over 18 so I won't, but I think she still needs parenting) then go ahead, invite her to live with you. I would imagine that her own parents might withdraw a lot of their financial support if she chooses to move out.

Telling other people about a disability is on a need to know basis. There are members of my family that don't know about my children's disabilities. They don't need to know. However, if medication is involved and my child is away over night then of course I would tell the person caring for my child.

So your DH wants this girl to come and live with you so she can have freedom and not have to tell anyone where she is? She doesn't work or study so basically she'll be in your house all day not doing a lot.Have I got that right?

I’m absolutely torn with this.

My dd has often said that she feels she is second best to ds. From the day she was born she had more time and more attention. It is genuinely in her head. To counter this we give her even more time and more attention as it seems that she needs it. Ds is pretty laid back and happy with the status quo.

I would also raise eyebrows somewhat at dh wanting to take in another teenage girl (although my dh is particularly introverted and while he is happy for us/the kids to have friends over, he is always happy when they leave so maybe not the best example).

That being said, I trust both of my dc implicitly. They are young, but have good heads on their shoulders. They also have very excellent awareness and boundaries. If they were at all concerned about a friend, I would be equally concerned. You know your dd. If you trust her judgement, help her friend.

On the surface, the parents do seem a bit controlling BUT... agree with PP. You need to properly understand what's going on here. A disability that was so serious she could have been harmed while she was with you but that was also so well hidden that no one noticed? Mmm, seems unlikely to me in all scenarios except possibly if the parents were in complete denial about it and it was something like dyspraxia so you all just thought she was amusingly bad at riding bicycles.

Similarly, if she's an addict then some kind of accountability would be pretty normal during this stage of her recovery and her parents would be wanting to ensure she's not meeting this "bad crowd".

As for the stealing, I think you're just being naive here. The chances are that she was stealing elsewhere etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't help her - if her relationship and trust with her parents has broken down then its entirely possible that it doesn't matter what she/they do as it will be taken the wrong way - but I am saying you need to be a bit more clear-eyed about this.

If you've known her for 13 years, surely you know the parents well enough to have a conversation with them and see the other side?

This is a tricky situation and you are only hearing her perspective from her experience.
I have a family member who was given the same (if not more) opportunities as their siblings.
They are the youngest and compared to the eldest, they have been given everything on a silver platter.
They tell stories of being abused and neglected which the other siblings don’t understand or have any recognition of.
The other siblings feel their younger sibling was always detached, preferring to be with friends than family.
Even now the youngest has more than their siblings and feels like they have the short straw of the stick, despite earning a good wage, having a good education and owning their own home, yet their siblings are in lower incomes, renting and struggling to get by. Both older siblings are much happier, have brilliant relationships with their parents and struggle to make sense of the issues the younger sibling has, younger sibling always feels like the world is against them.
I’m not saying this is anything like the situation this girl is going though but it’s an example of how one person’s feeling and perspective and skew their opinions on how they are treated by everyone around them.
I’ve personally noticed when my family member is questioned or faces opposition, has a disagreement, they automatically become defensive and feel no one is being fair to them yet they won’t compromise ever.
You need to be very careful OP, she may be telling her truth but that doesn’t mean it reflects reality.

No I wouldn’t say any of that is abusive. It sounds to me like she’s not very nice in all honestly. Maybe they felt they were protecting her modesty by not telling all and sundry about her medical issues. Why does she feel that people should know? Does she want sympathy? Drugs, steals, blames her parents. I would be interested to hear her parents side.

It’s clear you mean well OP, but you have no clue. Then girl has been a druggie and possibly still is, she’s stolen and gone off the rails, and she has some sort of mysterious disability which caused her to get bullied but apparently wasn’t even obvious to her best friend. How is any of that the parents’ fault?

And just because she has a successful, balanced older sibling doesn’t mean she’s a misunderstood, unsupported, little lost waif, it’s a role she wants to play because then nothing negative in her life is her fault.

Facilitating and encouraging this behaviour is so wrong on so many levels. The kid might be an adult, but she still needs to be parented by her parents and not by someone who has only ever scratched the surface of her life (in other words, knows nothing and not even about her disability) and has heard a rose-colored version of this sob story from her own teenager.

Plus how do you think kids learn to be decent adults (and not stealing druggies) if someone else swoops in and absolves them of whatever rules and boundaries her parents are trying to put in place? How will this kid learn to be personally responsible for her own actions and deeds when you are taking her chance away from her? She sounds more like a sulky teen having a tantrum because she wants to do whatever she wants, and is resentful because her brother is a better person than she is. She sounds like she doesn’t want her own less successful life to be something she’s responsible for, she wants her problems to be anyone’s fault except her own.

Kids are not a one size fits all model and you don’t know how to parent this kid better than her own parents just because you took her on outings.

OP, it's your husband I would be worried about. Is he always so immature?

I wouldn't let her stay with you. She might be very bad news and bring problem into your home. You know she does drugs, hangs out with the wrong crowd and who knows what else. If she moves in, she will become your problem. And not to mention that it might have an negative impact on your dd once she is permanently there.
You do not even know the full story.
Yes she's an adult, but maybe her parents know what she gets up to and the curfew thing is more to do with that. I wouldn't, and besides all members of your home need to agree on this.

Her parents sound awful. Like their love is conditional on success

This is a really unfair comment to make. We know nothing about the parents, only that they didn’t share details of her disability with other members of the family.

She was bullied because of a disability that affected her so much she failed her GCSEs - but even though she came on holiday with you, you didn’t know about it? Your daughter didn’t tell you? Either your daughter isn’t as good friends as she thought or the girl didn’t want to even tell her best friend?

The older brothers success might be unfair, but it might just be that he’s successful. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything other than he worked really hard. The daughter went to private school also - do you know for a fact she wasn’t allowed to leave as they had certain expectations?

Honestly I find it kind of worrying that both you and your husband seem to have very strong convictions about a child that you’ve known for a long time but didn’t know something as important as a disability?! How would your husband feel if you welcomed her with open arms and money started going missing? Or she does something and you have to tell her to leave

God it took me so long to type that I’ve cross posted with everyone!

@cally8019 I do wonder how you'll cope with the twins due in May 2021 and evicting your BIL from your other property AND taking on a teen with disabilities plus supporting your two Uni age children financially and with both yours and DH's businesses mothballed until whenever from last year. It could tip your family over into pulling your DD from her private school at an important stage in her education?

So really I am looking at the wider picture here.

[quote FlibbertyGiblets]@cally8019 I do wonder how you'll cope with the twins due in May 2021 and evicting your BIL from your other property AND taking on a teen with disabilities plus supporting your two Uni age children financially and with both yours and DH's businesses mothballed until whenever from last year. It could tip your family over into pulling your DD from her private school at an important stage in her education?

So really I am looking at the wider picture here.[/quote]
Ah, twins... Gotcha.

You could employ her as a nanny OP.

Rather hard to know the full story just from a teenager's account. Also a bit confused as to what evidence there is of "abuse" - the fact she and her parents clearly don't get on does not meet the definition of abuse IMHO. But obviously quite hard to tell without knowing more about all of it. Them wanting to know where she is is not unreasonable given the track record. Surely they are trying to keep her safe.

I think there are two separate issues.

You wont know whether her family are abusive. You will not be able to find that out from one side of the story. The parents could treat her brother differently because he is successful. Or they could be frustrated that despite all the opportunities that they gave her such as a private education, she chose not to take advantage of her. They could be trying to control her or they could be at their wits end terrified that she was going to steal and take drugs again and asking her to explain where she is, is a response to this. They could be embarrassed about her disability or unsupportive of it or they could have been trying to protect her from discrimination by not mentioning it to their friends. She isnt happy but it doesn't mean that they caused this, although they could have.

So with this in mind you need to decide whether you want an unhappy 18 year old coming to live with you. You need to think about timescales, house rules, what the consequences of breaking these rules will be and the impact on her relationship with her family.

Don't do it. You could be putting your dd and selves at risk .

Its excusable for your teen DD to be naive, gullible, or fooled by a manipulator. Don't let DD's inexperience and immature perceptions, form the basis for YOUR adult decision making. YOU are responsible adults , responsible for her, and your job is to protect your DD.

If you are concerned about the friend then talk to her parents and get their take on her situation and her claim of disability. Maybe there's a damn good reason that in 13 years you have never noticed it or heard of it before?

THINK. No special provisions at school ? No quiet lowdown tips from Mum to Mum before sleepovers, shared outings, activities? Really?

DDF steals from her own parents, so living in your home she will certainly steal from you. IF she is a very needy and experienced little manipulator who knows how to cry wolf convincingly, then let her in your home at your own peril. Any male in your home who challenges or complains about her behaviour, is a potential target for false claims, threats, extortion.

YABU. Keep well out of it.

It all sounds like a petulant teenager wanting to blame her parents for her own mistakes.

If my DD had been involved in drugs I would also be wanting to know exactly where she was going and who with. Frankly, I think they would be negligent if they were not doing this.

Your husbands reaction. Not good. He has written a narrative in his head and for some reason feels determined to ride in and be the saviour - possibly to try to deal with some of the issues of his own past. That means he is ignoring what actually is in front of him and is caught up in his own ego play. And it sounds as if he has not had therapy to put his own demons to bed - in any kind of therapy training it is important to have recognised your own bias. The fact he is sulking shows he does not have the emotional intelligence and maturity to be able to handle this full stop. This vulnerable child needs signposting to a good mental health support network, not getting embroiled in somebody elses fucked up story

Very good points @NettleTea. I was coming back on to this thread to say that, aside from your DD's friend's situation, your DH has clearly been triggered by what he perceives as similar treatment to what he went through. His reaction is out of proportion, and shows he has unresolved issues. But his unresolved issues are not a reason to bring your DD's friend into your home, with all the implications that PPs have pointed out.

And, what if she does move in and you and she have a falling out? Perhaps over her unreasonable behaviour. What's she going to start saying about you, and maybe accusing you and/or your DH of? You won't have leg to stand on.