To ask if these parents are abusive?

[cally8019]

Me and DH disagree on this. I am sympathetic, but can understand. He thinks it out of order and something needs to be done about it.

DD2 has a friend who has just turned 18. They have been friends through prep/senior ( this girl left in yr11)so we have known the family over 13 years.

They have an DS who is 21 and then their DD who is 18. The DS the “ideal” child- top marks in exams, good uni and job etc and has flown through life and is doing well.

Their DD? Struggled through school with bullying due to a disability (which me and DH weren’t even aware of), missed a lot of school because of it, failed her GCSES and hasn’t done anything since and turned to drugs last year.

DD has been supportive of her friend (which we are very proud of) and has helped her through difficulty and has helped her come clean. DD has told me the other friends she had were a rough crowd- stealing from people/shops etc. DD has told us her friend has never stolen anything apart from money for her parents- which obviously is inexcusable but different (not sure if that’s the right word?) then robbing people’s handbags in the street or from shops like these others have. I will note- I do not doubt for a second that DD hasn’t had anything to do with this crowd.

This girls parents had to help her out of debt last year- they still put a roof over her head, help her out etc.

But DD has come home tonight and said her friend has broke down to her today saying she feels she is being emotionally abused.

1. I will say it is clear their eldest child is the “favourite”. While both children have been given the same opportunities in some ways the eldest was pushed hard then the second who needed more support due to her disability but didn’t get it.

1. As mentioned before- me and DH were not aware of this girl having a disability (keeping in mind we have known her parents since the first week DD started reception). One of the reasons this girl gave to DD for being upset is that her parents didn’t even tell members of her family which she feels isn’t fair. I don’t want to disclose said disability (just in case this thread is found) but it’s severe enough for her to need support but not severe enough to be obvious if that makes sense?

1. This is where we head to murky water- according to DD, this girl can’t go anywhere without telling her parents were she is going, what she is doing and with whom. I understand this but I am sympathetic, DH does too but feels her mistakes shouldn’t be used as a noose around her neck when she is genuinely trying to piece her life together and is struggling to continue because she feels her parents don’t recognise her efforts.

The girl is a lovely girl and I do believe she has learnt from her mistakes but at the same time- while I don’t agree with some of the things her parents of done I’m sympathetic at the same time.

DD has asked if she can stay here with us. DH is saying yes (also worth mentioning he was emotionally abused by his parents)- I am undecided

What are everyone’s thoughts??

Very bad idea letting her move in. Once she's there you're well and truly stuck with her.
Support her from afar but don't do anything permanent.
Your husband's reaction is really weird!

No, I don’t think they sound abusive at all. They have two children who they probably believe they have raised equally, offered the same opportunities etc yet one has totally gone off the rails stealing, taking drugs and so forth. Of course they are naturally going to ‘prefer’ the one who did well at school and is now forging a decent life for himself. They will love both of their children but I do think it’s natural not to particularly like the child who is taking drugs and stealing money very much iykwim.

I have experience with this because my DH and SIL had the same childhood, both went to expensive private schools and so on. DH has done really well for himself but SIL is older than him in her 30s and still takes drugs and has no prospects at all. PIL struggle with SIL, have offered her lots of support over the years and given her tens of thousands of pounds but they basically seem to get abuse from her in return so yes, they prefer spending time with DH who is a stable family man.

They are still supporting their daughter, you mention they helped her sort out her debts and she still lives with them. They haven’t kicked her to the curb. I think they have every right to ask where she is going personally given her history, they clearly care about her.

They don't sound at all abusive to me.

It sounds like she's gone off the rails and they don't trust her anymore. I also wouldn't have someone who's been known to steal off their parents like that in my home on a long term basis!

I know a couple with an adult daughter who takes drugs off and on. They've bailed her out financially so many times when she's owed money to some quite scary dealers. One of the conditions of bailing her out last time was that she tells them where she's going and with whom - yes, she's an adult, but they've spent most of their retirement nest egg bailing her out time and again. She's stolen from them too.

I think the parents are probably at their wits' end, and your DD's friend is trying to avoid blaming herself for her own behaviour by deflecting onto her parents. A very common thing with addicts of all kinds.

I'd keep out of it, do not take her in.

Hmm, husband flown into a massive strop and sulked off to bed because you won’t move a vulnerable 18 year old girl with a history of bad choices and bad behaviour into the house?

Sounds like he’s hoping all his pornhub fantasies are coming home to roost.. literally!

I think the suggestion from a pp to have her stay for weekends and then go home again is a good one. Or you could let her stay for a week, 'for a break' then go back home again - just see how it goes. Perhaps you might find that you'd be happy to have her to stay longer, another week or a month say, or maybe you'd be relieved to have her return home.

Agree with pp with regards to the murkyness of you getting involved she feels she's being abused because h)according to DD, this girl can’t go anywhere without telling her parents were she is going, what she is doing and with whom
Is this just them having general chat of 'what are you up to tonight, are you back late' or a controlling you're not going anywhere unless we approve?

What are you going to do if this girl loses her job, won't move out at the agreed time, brings drugs into the house, gets into debt or steals from you? How are you going to feel if she goes back to drugs and becomes addicted or gets arrested when she's your responsibility?

Hard to know. Confused about the disability now too, you'd have to be careful when you have her round, in case she becomes unwell.

I think you need to mind your own business op.

I think her parents probably feel a lot of shame/blame around her disability and addiction issues - to them not telling other people and wanting to know her every move probably feel like protecting her whereas to her it feels like emotional abuse. It might help both of them if they were able to understand the other persons point of view.

I don't think you taking her in full time is the answer and it could back fire terribly - what if she drifts back to these friends or what if she gets comfortable and doesn't want to leave? I would instead consider offering to have her stay every weekend. That way she still has her place at home and tie with her parents but she gets a break at the weekend. If it doesn't work out it's then easier to tell her she can no longer come at the weekend. If you do this be very clear about your expectations and boundaries though.

@Tal45i think it’s a bit of an unfair leap to say that her parents were ashamed of her disability.

Maybe they just didn’t define her by it, or want other people to do so?

It'd be a big NO from me. Given this girls track record at such a young age, it's not unreasonable for her parents to want to know where she's going etc. Surely it'd be considered neglectful if they didn't want to know? You almost certainly won't have the full story and sounds like she's resentful of having her parents knowing about what she's up to. Unless you're willing to let her have a free reign in your home then I imagine you'll encounter issues too.
What about the potential impact on your DD?

You're being lied to.

Honestly, I don't see abusive parents in your post. I see parents who have given both materially (private school etc) and support (providing a home/setting boundries re going out etc) and a child who has gone of the rails and is now no doubt causing them endless sleepless nights.

I wouldn't expect a disability to be mentioned unless it was necessary. Once the child is secondary age, it is surely up to them to disclose their own (invisible and goes unnoticed, whilst also putting her in danger and causing her to be bullied -um really?) private information should they wish. I'm sure that the parents would have informed anyone who needed to know (e.g school).

Failing her exams is on her, not her parents
Taking drugs is on her, not her parents
Stealing in on her, not her parents
Hanging round with a bad crowd is on her, not her parents
Making bad decisions is on her, not her parents.

I literally cannot see what her parents have done wrong? She, on the other hand has a history of very poor behaviour.

I very much doubt that the elder child is the "favourite" or loved more, but the behaviour that you describe this girl showing would make her hard to like, although no doubt her parents love her dearly. Perhaps she could try acting more like her sibiling...

If my child lied, stole, took drugs, made bad choices - yes, I'd want to know where she was and what she was doing as much as I could. Not because I would be abusive, but so that I could try to support them and keep them from getting into trouble.

The most worrying thing about this whole post is that your DH wants to move a vulnerable 18 year old into your home. That is potential for abuse, and would majorly concern me. What on earth is your DH's motivation?

He went to bed in a sulk.....That's weird.

Just on being given the same opportunities -

It is pointless giving two people the same "opportunities" if they are the wrong "opportunities" for one person. Sounds like they failed to address her different needs as a person. Regardless of her disability, she had different needs, because she is a different person to the golden boy!

@sillysmiles you’re making things up to suit your own agenda. How do you know he was golden boy? You don’t. How do you know that her private school wasn’t the best fit for her needs? You don’t.

@Cocomarine

I'm basing it on this part of the OP
The DS the “ideal” child

If it was the best fit for her needs, why was she bullied, why did she drop out and why did she turn to drugs? Something was missing. There was something she needed - from her parents or her school - that she wasn't getting.

I didn't say they are abusive parents, but one of their children has different requirement (and probably a difficult personality) to their other child and - it seems from what is written by the OP, that despite having financial privilege, her needs haven't been met.
Maybe her needs are more emotional than financial? Who knows.
Not I, nor you.

There are a few big questions hanging over this post.

Firstly if nobody was aware of this disability, how was she bullied at school, and how did your daughter, who is such good friends of her, not know about the disability

The 'pushing' bit. I have 2 kids. Very different temperaments and very different in terms of whether they can be 'pushed' or not. Perhaps this girl was like my daughter and would have pushed back in refusal/avoidance creating a great deal of drama. Maybe the son has been encouraged rather than pushed, and engaged rather than avoided, and this is a natural consequence of that.

The drugs. What were they? There is a big difference to even heavy cannabis use, than mainlining heroin in a back alley. The fact she was with friends who were stealing to fund a habit sounds like the heavier end of the drug spectrum, which means much harder to deal with, and more likely there are some serious MH issues going on. The reasons behind the drugs are still going to be there, and unless the daughter takes some action, including taking responsibility for her own wellbeing and looking at her own part in it all, beyond blaming others, she is going to be caught in this for many years. She will need to be able to face the bad stuff and rebuild. This isnt an easy path, and often goes hand in hand with other self harming behavious such as cutting / OCD/eating disorders/ sexually harmful behaviour. Its a minefield and I doubt that, with the best intentions in the world, you have the experience to deal with it and if you fail it will further impact her.

Your husbands reaction. Not good. He has written a narrative in his head and for some reason feels determined to ride in and be the saviour - possibly to try to deal with some of the issues of his own past. That means he is ignoring what actually is in front of him and is caught up in his own ego play. And it sounds as if he has not had therapy to put his own demons to bed - in any kind of therapy training it is important to have recognised your own bias. The fact he is sulking shows he does not have the emotional intelligence and maturity to be able to handle this full stop. This vulnerable child needs signposting to a good mental health support network, not getting embroiled in somebody elses fucked up story.

You probably don't know the whole story and your husband sounds lovely that he wants to help her out but I'd look to directing her to other help that doesn't involve her moving into your home

I think you and your dh seem a bit naive to be so taken in

l'm basing it on this part of the OP
The DS the “ideal” child

But again, this narrative must purely be over sided from DDs friend view, unless her parents have actually voiced this opinion to you?

Aside from the fact that you seem utterly unable to see clearly what's going on with this girl and need to keep well out of it; your dh's response is disturbing at a level of it's own.

I smell a whole pile of steaming bullshit here. The girl has a disability that made her miss lots of school, shes been friends with your daughter for years, and yet you (via your daughter) didn’t know that “Jess is epileptic” - or whatever her issue is. Really?

People in private schools don’t fail all their exams because their parents didn’t push them.

As a very first step, even if you think they will lie, get the whole story from her parents. I think you’ll find plenty of places where the stories don’t match and not all will look like lying parents. They want to know where their recovering addict, thief daughter who hangs with a bad crowd, whose disability means she can be in danger away from home is... what exactly is the bad thing they’re doing there?

This. I think you are being very unfair to the parents, who sound like they have done and are continuing to do their best to help their daughter, who had gone through some significant trauma, due to one thing and another. They may well be at the end of their tether, exhausted from it all and not knowing what else to do. There is very little support out there for families going through this. I would also advise digging a bit deeper to find out what is actual fact and what is teenage manipulation from a young woman who has been known to steal and take drugs in the past.

I would also be worried about what is behind your husband's desire to take this girl in.