DPs house and shared finances

[TheFatDuck]

I need some advice on what to do about my DP’s mortgage and how we share our finances.

DP and I have been together around 5 years. We have plans to marry and have DC etc.

Before we got together, DP bought a house with a sizeable deposit. When I moved in around 4 years ago, I was earning significantly less than DP. At that time, it was decided that we would pay equal proportions from our respective salaries to cover the mortgage and bills. It was decided DP would remain on the mortgage and I would not be added. As my proportion was so minimal, I was happy with this.

At that time, I said to DP that should I start paying significantly more towards the mortgage (say 50% plus if my salary were to increase) I would want something to show for it if we were to split up. I was concerned that should I pay 50% of the mortgage for a substantial period and we were to break up, I would have nothing to show for the money I put in and that I would essentially be paying off DPs mortgage. This did not go down well with DP at the time.

DP and I are now earning near enough identical salaries and I am wondering what is now fair in terms of finances and what we pay. I am of course happy to split bills 50:50 but would be uncomfortable splitting the mortgage 50:50 as I would not want us to break up and for me to end up with nothing.

I proposed that DPs deposit and mortgage contributions up to now could be ‘ring fenced’ some how with the remainder of the mortgage being split between us with me being put on the mortgage (although I am not sure how this would work in practice). DP thinks that I shouldn’t get the benefit of this however as I did not put in any money for a deposit in the first place so does not want to do this. I think DP thinks I am being a bit grabby. Am I?

Am I being unreasonable in wanting some sort of protection for myself? What is the fairest thing to do here for both parties?

Ultimately I am happy to pay some sort of ‘rent’ to DP if it is nominal but don’t want to pay a huge chunk (which DP would put towards the mortgage) if I end up with nothing if we break up.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and can offer any advice?

Thank you

OP: suggests partner ringfences his deposit and contributions

Every other poster: ‘why don’t you suggest he ringfences his deposit and contributions?’

YANBU OP. I think that’s a fair way to do things.

@jimmyjammy001

From you DPs point of view he has a sizeable amount of equity in the house which means his mortgage payments are very low and so would yours be if you are added to the property, without that sizeable equity the interest would be alot more for you so you are probably saving quite a bit in interest each month due to the equity in the house, so even if you did ring fence his equity and split mortgage 50/50 you would still be benefiting the most out of this arrangement. He may as well take the money out and buy another house where he would get an income from renting it of say £1000 a month and then you both remortgage current house with same deposits and monthly payments each, that would be fairer and no one is being screwed.

I was in the same situation as the OP and my ex used this argument that his big deposit would mean if i was added to the mortgage my half would be much smaller than the going rent and why did I think I should get to benefit like that?

It just killed the love. Maybe I should get to 'benefit' because you love me, want me to be happy and safe and build a committed life together? I just showed he didn't feel like that and I could no longer stay with someone who saw it as me vs him rather than us.

To clarify, I was perfectly happy for him to protect what he had already put in - wouldn't have touched a penny. But deep down he just resented the idea I could part own a house I I couldn't afford alone. Not the actions of a loving partner.

I'd recommend leaving OP, this stuff is not just about money or it could all be sorted fairly and quickly. It's about lack of commitment and care about you and it will just lead to resentment.

@TheFatDuck

Thanks all for your replies.

To answer a few questions, if we get married, we share things equally. We have already agreed this so I am not concerned about this.

I have already spoken to DP about the deed of trust idea (with DPs deposit being protected and any payments made up to today protected too) with anything future being split. DP is not happy with this as they think I shouldn't get the benefit of having a mortgage on a house when I did not put in any deposit or any effort into buying the house.

I really am happy to pay some sort of rent but unsure what amount is reasonable?

To be honest I think your partner sounds reasonable. You see it so often on here when it's the other way around people telling the OP not to add their partner as the house is there's etc.

You've said you both have already spoke about when you're married everything will be equal, which is fair at that point. Honestly, until being married or having kids , I wouldn't be happy to put my partner on my mortgage either.
If you were to split up soon after being added on, your partner would either have to find the money to buy you out, which depending how much it is he may not be able to do, or would have to sell the house he has only been in for 5 years. Or would you want to stay in the house if you split?

Personally I would say pay 50% of all other bills and perhaps 25% of the mortgage payment and save the other 25% so that if you do split you have some savings behind you for a mortgage of your own. How much does he think you should pay?

Sell the house then buy one equally.

Funny how when it's the other way around, the guy moving in his partner's property, almost everyone agrees that she should protect her property, not get married, and the guy should pay rent.

Here, it's much more divided with the majority making him unreasonable.

Ultimate, you are committed or not. If you and truly intend to marry soon it doesn't really matter dies it? At one point, what's his will be yours anyway.

If you are no or not yet commited to spending the rest of your life together then that's fair enough. On this case though, why talk marriage unless as a vague notion of something that could happen, someday in the future. In this case you need to decide if you want to stay with without that level of commitment after 4 years.

To be honest, I'd say get married or split up.

I agree with @Lou98 once married share assets until married neither of you have made the commitment to share assets. In your partner's position I wouldn't want to let you buy into the house until I was committed via marriage because there is a cost to doing this and undoing it, with no guarantee I would get it back if you broke up.

If you don't intend to marry for a while, just pay going rate for a house share or move out and live separately until you do get married.

Would you have been able to buy a house in the past 4 years had you not been living with DP?
What is half the mortgage payment? How much would you be for half the rent per month on a similar property locally?
If you weren't able to buy at any point anyway and would be paying rent if not living with him (and paying toward someone else's mortgage no doubt) then I don't think you should feel entitled to anything if you were to split. From when you are married, yes and he may make an agreement so that even if you do split you are only entitled to a percentage of equity from when you started contributing to the mortgage but not for any of the deposit.

Ring fencing his deposit won’t help him/her if they do split up and he/she is forced to sell the property to buy the OP out.

If it’s ok for the OP to be thinking about how to protect herself in the event if a split, then it’s got to be ok for the partner to be able to do that as well.

but would be uncomfortable splitting the mortgage 50:50 as I would not want us to break up and for me to end up with nothing

If you were renting you’d break up and end up with nothing. MN’s attitude towards this mystifies me - it’s fine to pay a landlord’s mortgage with nothing to show for it but not a partner’s. Odd.

Using his argument he’s getting the benefits of being married to you without actually proposing, marrying you etc etc. Tell him he wants to have his cake and eat it, that is have you living with him as if you were married, paying half his mortgage with him keeping all the equity. What if the house needs repairs, are you supposed to pay towards that as well? You have zero security, he could tell you to leave tomorrow. By the way I was in this situation with my DP before we had kids and I didn’t take any money towards the mortgage until we bought together.

He is NBU to want to protect what he put in, but he can't expect you to pay a mortgage on a house and not have a stake in it. If you split up, he has benefitted from you having paid the mortgage for years.

Your suggestion to ring fence it all is the sensible one and he should be jumping at that and working out a fair way to proceed.

I put down 1/3 of the house as a deposit and XH had nothing and stupidly I didn't protect it. I would never make that mistake again so I totally see where he is coming from, but at the same time, I did not make XH pay anything towards the previous house as it was in my name only, and he paid half of all the other bills.

Your DP can't have it both ways and YANBU to want to protect what you are putting in. If he won't agree then I would seriously question what would happen in the future, if you were to have DC etc.

My house is a major investment for the future. I got the deposit together by going without, them sharing my space with a lodger to rebuild some emergency savings. My repayment is comfortable now, but at times it has meant going without holidays or meals out.

For me, it wouldn’t be about ring fencing what I put in already - it would be about my choice not to share my investment. Even if I hadn’t made sacrifices - it’s my investment.

If I had a £100K in shares and you said, “can I buy £20K of Tesco shares from you?” I’d say, “Uh - no! These are mine, they’re part of my retirement plans, I don’t want £20K cash from you, I want my investment. But your own?”

I do think you shouldn’t be paying big chunks to his mortgage. But... you’ve already had years of him subbing you on bills %. And presumably half of the mortgage repayment (and certainly when it was a smaller %?) was less than rent for a similar property.

As long as he’s not asking for more towards the mortgage than you’d be paying in rent - it’s his business whether he wants you to come in on his investment.

I know a lot of MN will think I care more about money than love (I’m very practical about money!) but in my personal situation of earning more than my boyfriend, I let him live here for free. Not even bills. No way am I giving up part of my investment to him though.

Partly: it’s mine, and I don’t want to.
Partly: if we split up, I don’t want to lose my house or go through buying him out

Work out a fair rent, and start saving what you’re saving. Your own domestic Property isn’t the only investment available to you 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't think the OP should be paying rent to live in the house that their dp would be paying for regardless. If the OP is paying bills then it isn't costing the dp any more than they'd be paying anyway - arguably less in fact, since council tax and heating bills are shared.
There's something very 'icky' about charging rent to someone you are in a supposedly loving relationship with. The fact that he doesn't want you to get any benefit from his mortgage/deposit, even though that wouldn't be detrimental to him in any way if a deed of trust was agreed, is ringing alarm bells. This is a person who supposedly loves you.
I'd be wary of this because what happens down the line if you couldn't work for whatever reason, or reduced your financial contribution to look after children?

@Cocomarine

My house is a major investment for the future. I got the deposit together by going without, them sharing my space with a lodger to rebuild some emergency savings. My repayment is comfortable now, but at times it has meant going without holidays or meals out.

For me, it wouldn’t be about ring fencing what I put in already - it would be about my choice not to share my investment. Even if I hadn’t made sacrifices - it’s my investment.

If I had a £100K in shares and you said, “can I buy £20K of Tesco shares from you?” I’d say, “Uh - no! These are mine, they’re part of my retirement plans, I don’t want £20K cash from you, I want my investment. But your own?”

I do think you shouldn’t be paying big chunks to his mortgage. But... you’ve already had years of him subbing you on bills %. And presumably half of the mortgage repayment (and certainly when it was a smaller %?) was less than rent for a similar property.

As long as he’s not asking for more towards the mortgage than you’d be paying in rent - it’s his business whether he wants you to come in on his investment.

I know a lot of MN will think I care more about money than love (I’m very practical about money!) but in my personal situation of earning more than my boyfriend, I let him live here for free. Not even bills. No way am I giving up part of my investment to him though.

Partly: it’s mine, and I don’t want to.
Partly: if we split up, I don’t want to lose my house or go through buying him out

Work out a fair rent, and start saving what you’re saving. Your own domestic Property isn’t the only investment available to you 🤷🏻‍♀️

Which is more than fair enough, but OPs partner could be honest about it rather than come up with excuses and dangle the promise of marriage. Presumably you were upfront with your partner and they could make an informed decision about whether they were happy about that or whether they wanted to get on the property ladder themselves, I think that's fair. Also if in your case he is living there for free he can save the money he'd normally spend on rent just in case.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously but it would be detrimental to him. He would lose the (potential) capital growth on whatever portion he has given up to her. Many people see a house as an investment. I posted above - it’s OK not to want to share that investment plan. It’s also detrimental to him if they split up and she owns part of the house, with all the complexity of that.

@Brown76

Using his argument he’s getting the benefits of being married to you without actually proposing, marrying you etc etc. Tell him he wants to have his cake and eat it, that is have you living with him as if you were married, paying half his mortgage with him keeping all the equity. What if the house needs repairs, are you supposed to pay towards that as well? You have zero security, he could tell you to leave tomorrow. By the way I was in this situation with my DP before we had kids and I didn’t take any money towards the mortgage until we bought together.

I quite agree. Zero security. At least renting from a landlord she would have some kind of tenancy agreement. Shes come up with an offer which ring fences his investment, but would like, if she's contributing to the mortgage, to have some sort of ownership. His deposit is one thing, but argument of her not "putting the effort" into buying the house, (before they lived together) the way its expressed, sounds quite grudging and ungenerous.

I think it would be different if roles were reversed because if they have children, she could be from the description of their finances going to be the one taking a hit in salary and pension terms to look after them, whilst he continues to be the bigger earner and if that was the case then she should try to protect her living arrangements.

In any case, its not outrageous for the OP to try to review their financial arrangements after five years with marriage on the horizon. He seems very reluctant to change the initial arrangement.

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously

I don't think the OP should be paying rent to live in the house that their dp would be paying for regardless. If the OP is paying bills then it isn't costing the dp any more than they'd be paying anyway - arguably less in fact, since council tax and heating bills are shared. There's something very 'icky' about charging rent to someone you are in a supposedly loving relationship with. The fact that he doesn't want you to get any benefit from his mortgage/deposit, even though that wouldn't be detrimental to him in any way if a deed of trust was agreed, is ringing alarm bells. This is a person who supposedly loves you. I'd be wary of this because what happens down the line if you couldn't work for whatever reason, or reduced your financial contribution to look after children?

Would you say the same if OP moved into a house he was renting? Because essentially he’s renting it from his lender. Why does MN think it’s fine not to pay for the roof over your head because you’re sleeping with the person who provides it? Let alone think it’s “icky” - loathsome word.

I wouldn’t go for the OPs offer if I was the other half. I would want to ring fence my equity not deposit plus payments. Unless you are named on the mortgage or have an interest in the property you don’t pay the mortgage. You pay rent.

DP is not happy with this as they think I shouldn't get the benefit of having a mortgage on a house when I did not put in any deposit or any effort into buying the house.

What does he mean by effort? Cost of buying the house like legal fees?

You're paying for a house that you didn't choose and was presumably picked because the location suited your partner at the time.

It sounds like the best compromise is for you and him to buy a new place and start afresh. He has his deposit ring fenced and you and him own the rest 50/50. Moving costs like legal fees could be paid 50/50

Also we can't really compare mortgage v rent as we don't know if its an interest only mortgage, whether he's got a great interest rate, the loan to equity value etc. And we don't know if OP would be able to save for her own property in the last five years if not contributing to his mortgage. All OP can do is see a financial adviser.. alone and find out where she stands and what she ought to be doing to safeguard her future, married or not.

@Tallybo I did indeed have a very frank discussion with my boyfriend. We are much older, have marriages and children behind us. It is a different situation, definitely (he has a house of his own! His adult son lives there for covering bills only, all because my boyfriend is on a total freebie at mine! Frankly, my boyfriend is laughing all the way to the bank! But... I think my feelings about my investment are relevant to how OP’s boyfriend feels.

I don’t think you’re being fair saying the OP’s boyfriend needs to be honest. He’s been subsidising her for 4 years, there’s nothing in the OP to suggest that marriage is being dangled - just that it’s a future sun for both of them. OP says, when she moved in 4 years ago, she said she’d want to come on his mortgage when their salaries levelled. And at the time, he said he didn’t want that. So he’s been honest all the way.

OP needs to make her own investments. Big tax efficient pension contributions perhaps, or a BTL of her own.

If you go on the mortgage (with the deposit ring fenced etc.) Then you could double the mortgage payments and pay it off twice as fast. That way both of your equity would grow much faster. Would your DP go for that?

Currently it looks like you'd keep the mortgage the same payment amount, so, assuming the mortgage is £800, he'd only be saving £400 a month by adding you to the mortgage and you paying half. If you increase the repayment amount, he's paying the same as now but basically halving the mortgage term.

Ah effort means equity.
Then get valuations and let him protect his equity as of say today. You and him own the rest 50/50

@DuckbilledSplatterPuff definitely not unreasonable to want to review it. But... you say he’s reluctant to change his mind, but he did tell her that 4 years ago.