DPs house and shared finances

[TheFatDuck]

I need some advice on what to do about my DP’s mortgage and how we share our finances.

DP and I have been together around 5 years. We have plans to marry and have DC etc.

Before we got together, DP bought a house with a sizeable deposit. When I moved in around 4 years ago, I was earning significantly less than DP. At that time, it was decided that we would pay equal proportions from our respective salaries to cover the mortgage and bills. It was decided DP would remain on the mortgage and I would not be added. As my proportion was so minimal, I was happy with this.

At that time, I said to DP that should I start paying significantly more towards the mortgage (say 50% plus if my salary were to increase) I would want something to show for it if we were to split up. I was concerned that should I pay 50% of the mortgage for a substantial period and we were to break up, I would have nothing to show for the money I put in and that I would essentially be paying off DPs mortgage. This did not go down well with DP at the time.

DP and I are now earning near enough identical salaries and I am wondering what is now fair in terms of finances and what we pay. I am of course happy to split bills 50:50 but would be uncomfortable splitting the mortgage 50:50 as I would not want us to break up and for me to end up with nothing.

I proposed that DPs deposit and mortgage contributions up to now could be ‘ring fenced’ some how with the remainder of the mortgage being split between us with me being put on the mortgage (although I am not sure how this would work in practice). DP thinks that I shouldn’t get the benefit of this however as I did not put in any money for a deposit in the first place so does not want to do this. I think DP thinks I am being a bit grabby. Am I?

Am I being unreasonable in wanting some sort of protection for myself? What is the fairest thing to do here for both parties?

Ultimately I am happy to pay some sort of ‘rent’ to DP if it is nominal but don’t want to pay a huge chunk (which DP would put towards the mortgage) if I end up with nothing if we break up.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and can offer any advice?

Thank you

Do not have children with him! He'll have you over a barrel and you'll have no rights.

Your suggestion to ring-fence his deposit and contributions to date is reasonable. He doesn't want to do that, which is fair enough. It's his house and his prerogative, but you don't have to stay as a lodger in his house forever. Move out into your own place and buy your own property. He can't have it both ways: a girlfriend who pays half his mortgage, but isn't entitled to half the house.

You've been together 4 years and are planning to marry, this is a serious relationship. If he's not prepared to either marry you or sort out the house, then throw him back into the sea.

I don't understand those saying the OP is leaving herself vulnerable.

If she lived elsewhere she would be paying rent. So long as half the mortgage is equivalent to or less than the rent she would be paying elsewhere then she doesn't lose out.

If she wants to get on the property ladder there is nothing stopping her buying her own place - even if she rents it out.

If my DP had his attitude I would be leaving! Either marry him, if you really want to, or start saving your own money. Don't pay him rent without getting anything in return - I don't think that is fair either. Tell him you are going to put the money towards a buy to let so that you are on the property ladder too if it all goes pear-shaped.

By 'half the house' I mean half the equity built after the ring fencing.

What do you mean by "plans to marry"? Exactly how certain is this to happen?

Just to say, we don’t know the sex of either party here.

Not that it makes a difference.

Except that often it is the case that women are and need to be more protective of their security if there is the possibility that their income, future career development and pension will be affected more by child related factors.

OP you have to get proper advice and plan your finances carefully, if you continue in this relationship. And then sound him out about how he sees your financial futures, as well as the emotional one.

Yes she would be paying rent elsewhere and I understand all those arguments, but this is an engaged couple sharing accommodation, and so its not an equal comparison.
He gets lots of benefits out of this arrangement that a private landlord does not.
Being a private landlord is a risk because he might get a bad tenant or have to keep finding new ones, and may miss out on rent during that time. He's got a very good tenant here hasn't he? Reliable, takes impeccable care of the property, contributes to all the bills. probably buys furniture, helps with decorating etc. probably contributes to holidays and pays half of meals out etc
He's not sharing the house with a lodger which might inconvenience or annoy him at times.
She is paying towards the mortgage and that makes it affordable FOR HIM in the most pleasant way possible and it is the reason he is able to maintain his lifestyle, whilst still having a growing investment.
By the same token, Are they equally sharing housekeeping and cleaning or does she do more than 50% and if so should she be paid for this? What's the monetary value of her contribution to the smooth running of the household and his happiness.

And if she has to take time off, a career step back to have children, will he have the same attitude towards their finances then? Will he be considered the main contributor and therefore the main benefactor then, because his contributions are financial and hers don't have an automatic monetary value?

OP Don't fall into the trap of losing out on pensions and savings and particularly of having any lump sums you may get in the future being allocated for "family expenses", as you are considered to be making a smaller financial contribution and any lump sum you may get, is seen as a top up, so that you end up with no investments or savings of your own.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs Quite right on both counts

I think it all depends on what 50% of the mortgage is vs 50% of a typical rental property. If the mortgage is 1.5k a month and you're paying 750 but you could rent somewhere else for 500 then you should only pay 500. However if the mortgage is only 750 then I think for your dp to profit off you by charging a market rent (500) is shitty.
I can completely understand why they wouldn't want to include you in the equity. I wouldn't want to. Marriage is different because you're (supposedly) making a life commitment.

I understand why your DP wants to protect their assets and if you didn't put 50% of the deposit and aren't paying 50% of the maintenance and repairs you are not paying 50% of the house. However, you also need to protect your future so either he needs to share the house properly (perhaps protecting his deposit proportion) or you need to sell and get a (possibly more expensive house) together. That's what me and DP did when he moved into my house. After a period of time during which really we were seeing if we were compatible, we sold my house and bought a place together which I owned more of. He did not have a house before.

I’m sorry but that just sounds like he doesn’t actually want to be ‘tied’ to you. I think that’s quite a horrible thing to say to your long term partner to be honest. I would stop paying towards his mortgage and buy somewhere yourself even if you rent it out cause right now he’s stopping you from having that security even after 5 years together which isn’t right. I guess this would be extended to other situations too which could become very problematic in the future.

In your position I would buy my own property and let it out.
I think that it's odd to charge a dp rent, half of the bills yes, but rent as well makes it sound like a lodger.
He's protecting himself financially but I think he will be one of these guys I keep reading about on here that use money to control when children come along.

I agree with others that you would be paying rent anyway, if you two weren't together.

But the dynamics aren't the same. Paying rent to a landlord/rental agency isn't the same as paying rent to a romantic partner who is directly benefitting from you contributing to their mortgage.

@TheFatDuck

Thanks all for your replies.

To answer a few questions, if we get married, we share things equally. We have already agreed this so I am not concerned about this.

I have already spoken to DP about the deed of trust idea (with DPs deposit being protected and any payments made up to today protected too) with anything future being split. DP is not happy with this as they think I shouldn't get the benefit of having a mortgage on a house when I did not put in any deposit or any effort into buying the house.

I really am happy to pay some sort of rent but unsure what amount is reasonable?

I suppose he is thinking that if you split up he wants to be able to offer his new partner something. Maybe she is in the same position you were in and not able to split the finances 50/50?

@RainingBatsAndFrogs

I don’t really understand your DP’s reservation about adding you as long as the proportions of ownership and the capital deposit is protected.

Especially in the context of an intention to marry.

It is common to own a house as ‘tenants in common’ where each party owns a defined amount of the property.

Do either of you have children with other people? Whose inheritance you are wishing to protect?

It is important that you build security for yourself. If you were not living in DP’s house would you be looking to save towards a mortgage of your own?

The current situation is unequal and unbalanced: your DP has security and is investing in that security. You do not have security, and are contributing to your DP’s investment.

Ask your DP if they are choosing their security over the relationship. Ask yourself if you can afford to choose the relationship over your security.

There are so many flaws in this post I don't know where ti start. Protecting the nominal amount of his deposit is no help to him as the nominal value will get eroded by inflation causing him to lose money in real terms. It may be common to buy a house as remnants in common but changing it is not particularly common. He is not protecting anybodys inheritance. His main concern will be then splitting up in a few years time and he loses his house. If the OP could have bought a house she would probably have bought one and she us actually saving money by not paying rent but has probably spent all that money as well. This unequal relationship stuff is nonsense. If she was a billionaire would you really recommend she gives half away to a partner she isn't married to? And if he gives only part of the property away it will still be unequal.

DP is not happy with this as they think I shouldn't get the benefit of having a mortgage on a house when I did not put in any deposit or any effort into buying the house
If he loved you and wanted to build a life with you he’d want you to benefit from what he has and have security.

To everyone compare it to renting from a private landlord - as a tenant you’d have some rights. As things stand he could tell you to leave tomorrow and he’d be well within his rights.
If you stay with him, I’d think about paying towards bills and saving like mad so that you have something to fall back on.

Marriage is essentially about money. He wants to protect his assets from before he met you, I can't blame him for that. If he were a female friend I'd be telling her to be very wary about getting married. Because it isnt on an equal footing (( she'd stand to lose out. As so many people get divorced that's a very real possibility)) I'd say the same to a guy tbh.

In your situation I'd buy a cheap buy to let property that you can rent out so you have some security if things go tits up and just carry on as you are. There's absolutely no reason why women can't be independent of a man these days, I'm not comfortable with ushering somebody down the aisle just so their finances are shared.

Someone else will have probably said, but if you can prove you have been paying into the mortgage account then you are legally entitled to a portion of the property as far as I am aware.

bp300

The value of capital is not protected in absolute terms, hence the word ‘proportions’.

The mention of inheritance was a question, is it behind the DP’s reservations? In which case a different range of discussion points need to be looked at.

There are no recommendations in the post, except for questions to ask.

Marriage will not change anything if you split up/get divorced.

The house was bought by your DP before you got together which makes the house a non-matrimonial asset and would not be included in any divorce settlement.

You would be better off discussing the idea of selling up and then buying a new place putting down equal deposits with both of you on the mortgage.

Me and my DH plan on selling up and moving in a few years as I am not on our mortgage the house is solely in DH's name even though we bought it together which makes me vulnerable if we split.

There is a huge misconception that a divorce settlement splits the assets 50/50 this is not always the case they are split taking into consideration what is fair.

Another option op would be just pay bills nothing toward your mogage and hen you save your own deposit

From you DPs point of view he has a sizeable amount of equity in the house which means his mortgage payments are very low and so would yours be if you are added to the property, without that sizeable equity the interest would be alot more for you so you are probably saving quite a bit in interest each month due to the equity in the house, so even if you did ring fence his equity and split mortgage 50/50 you would still be benefiting the most out of this arrangement. He may as well take the money out and buy another house where he would get an income from renting it of say £1000 a month and then you both remortgage current house with same deposits and monthly payments each, that would be fairer and no one is being screwed.

I'd break up with him and move out.

He doesn't love you and he's not going to marry you.

Don’t pay extra to the mortgage until you are married.

Set a date ASAP. In the meantime save your money in case you need it for your own deposit in the future.

Really weird. You’re offering to protect his deposit but that’s still not enough for him? It’s like he’s deliberately putting barriers in place to you improving your own situation at no cost to him. To punish you somehow for not coming into your relationship with as much as him? Basically because you didn’t own property before you got together he doesn’t think you deserve that, is he really that worried that your relationship may have helped you somehow. What the fuck? Such a superior and condescending attitude. If you hadn’t moved in with him you’d probably have put your salary increases to good use and saved up your own deposit. Sadly I think he just wants to keep things simple because he’s not fully committed to you. The way he thinks is simply not how someone feels after five years if they are in love and committed to a future with someone. Whatever you do, DO NOT GET PREGNANT WITHOUT GETTING MARRIED.