DPs house and shared finances

[TheFatDuck]

I need some advice on what to do about my DP’s mortgage and how we share our finances.

DP and I have been together around 5 years. We have plans to marry and have DC etc.

Before we got together, DP bought a house with a sizeable deposit. When I moved in around 4 years ago, I was earning significantly less than DP. At that time, it was decided that we would pay equal proportions from our respective salaries to cover the mortgage and bills. It was decided DP would remain on the mortgage and I would not be added. As my proportion was so minimal, I was happy with this.

At that time, I said to DP that should I start paying significantly more towards the mortgage (say 50% plus if my salary were to increase) I would want something to show for it if we were to split up. I was concerned that should I pay 50% of the mortgage for a substantial period and we were to break up, I would have nothing to show for the money I put in and that I would essentially be paying off DPs mortgage. This did not go down well with DP at the time.

DP and I are now earning near enough identical salaries and I am wondering what is now fair in terms of finances and what we pay. I am of course happy to split bills 50:50 but would be uncomfortable splitting the mortgage 50:50 as I would not want us to break up and for me to end up with nothing.

I proposed that DPs deposit and mortgage contributions up to now could be ‘ring fenced’ some how with the remainder of the mortgage being split between us with me being put on the mortgage (although I am not sure how this would work in practice). DP thinks that I shouldn’t get the benefit of this however as I did not put in any money for a deposit in the first place so does not want to do this. I think DP thinks I am being a bit grabby. Am I?

Am I being unreasonable in wanting some sort of protection for myself? What is the fairest thing to do here for both parties?

Ultimately I am happy to pay some sort of ‘rent’ to DP if it is nominal but don’t want to pay a huge chunk (which DP would put towards the mortgage) if I end up with nothing if we break up.

Has anyone been in a similar situation and can offer any advice?

Thank you

I think your proposal is fair and makes sense. But I think this is one of those threads where were you to now reveal that you are male and your DP female, the responses would change significantly.

I’d be cautious about this man. You’re proposing a fair solution and not saying you want HIS deposit but to ring fence it and he’s still not happy. Why wouldn’t he want the person he loves to benefit?

I'm wondering whether it's a good idea to talk marriage and making real plans. I think it might show you just how committed he is.

The problem is that he is on the property ladder and you are not. And while this situation continues, you won't be. If he is the only one with equity in the house you are living in, then of course you should not be paying his mortgage off. If his deposit is ringfenced, there is nothing wrong with you having a share of the remaining equity, and a solicitor can sort this easily. If he refuses, why? Just on principle that you didnt put any effort in years ago? Is that really a good enough reason to rob you of any future financial security? I don't think so.

Whilst of course you would be paying rent if you lived elsewhere, that isn't the situation. As long as he won't allow you to share in the equity of the house you are paying part of the mortgage on, you are in a vulnerable position. If you had been renting these last 5 years, instead of paying his mortgage, would you have bought your own place by now or would you be saving so that you could? If so, then by living with him and paying off his mortgage, he is preventing you from gaining your own financial security. How can you fix this? Either by switching to a tenants in common arrangement on your current house, or by getting married. The only other thing I can think of is if there is any chance of you doing something different in your own name? Could you buy a different property and rent it out, for instance, so instead of paying off his mortgage, you are paying one of your own? That way you will have a property each. I appreciate this may not be possible though. His position is unreasonable as long as he is knowingly putting you in a vulnerable position and refusing to consider any solution to this.

Also I have been in this situation (female) I was the one huge deposit and my then boyfriend now husband helped paid the mortgage with me and we decided that if we broke up I’d keep what I put in and he would keep what he’d put in (significantly less than me) I never felt he was being grabby, I love him and wanted a life with him. We are now married and it doesn’t matter anymore. I would very much question your boyfriends motives.

@TheFatDuck

Thanks all for your replies.

To answer a few questions, if we get married, we share things equally. We have already agreed this so I am not concerned about this.

I have already spoken to DP about the deed of trust idea (with DPs deposit being protected and any payments made up to today protected too) with anything future being split. DP is not happy with this as they think I shouldn't get the benefit of having a mortgage on a house when I did not put in any deposit or any effort into buying the house.

I really am happy to pay some sort of rent but unsure what amount is reasonable?

I don't get his view though, as it is possible to ring-fence every penny they have already put into the house, and the 'efforts element is a ridiculous excuse. Is he keen on marriage? Going to take a wild guess at no.

@ComtesseDeSpair

I think your proposal is fair and makes sense. But I think this is one of those threads where were you to now reveal that you are male and your DP female, the responses would change significantly.

That would depend of the OP is a man and who is serious about marriage and children or just looking for an investment.

Its puzzling that the partner objects to this reasonable proposal but agrees to share all when they're married.

I said his, but appreciate that was an assumption - whoever the partner is I would advise the same.

I think the idea of the deed of trust is the best option. If he doesn't want to do this then I would be questioning whether this was a good relationship- especially if you plan children in the future - take a read of some of the threads where women are having to save for their 50% during smp!

What I would do if you want to stay put: pay half the bills gas, electricity, internet etc but NOT mortgage or maintenance on the house. I'd then save this amount separately in an account in your name only, towards a deposit on a house of your own - either purchased perhaps as a buy to let, or as a rental if you need it at some point. At the point you get married you can combine this or pay into his house provided you are then on the deeds. (It matters less if you are married). That way you are both making a contribution to your futures without leaving yourself exposed.

If you want to pay some kind of rent then I would make it a minimal contribution say similar to what you paid initially. I would not be paying anything close to 50% of the mortgage.

OP is this ringing alarm bells for you?

A deed of trust is exactly what we did as DH paid the deposit on our house from the sale of his old house. We weren't married when we bought We are joint owners and but if anything were to happen his deposit is protected. I can't understand why your DP won't do this, it's so straightforward.

As PP have said, it doesn't sound like he's a very "what's yours is mine" kind of bloke, and I'd be wary about getting married to someone like that. Surely that's one of the reasons for marriage?

I don’t really understand this , if you were renting it would be no different. You’re paying for the roof over your head.

I can see why he’s not bang up for this. I can see why you’d want it. I cannot see why you think you’re entitled to a share of the property because you paid “rent” to live there.

I moved in with my DP who is now my DH. We had no plans to marry at the time. The first thing he did was to put the house into joint names and the mortgage company was happy to add me to the mortgage even though my income was low. He said that he wanted to show his commitment to me and didn't want me to feel like a lodger. We did marry a year later and I came into some money and paid off the mortgage.

I would doubt his commitment to you. You've discussed marriage, but aren't engaged? After five years it looks like a red flag to me.

You are good enough to have children with but not ensure that you have an equal share to the home Yes he put down a great big deposit but he wants you to contribute to his house.
Also, when are you planning to get married? Are you sure he wants to because that will mean you do get a share in the home. Just make sure he isn't stringing you along about that.

I’d say that after 5 years together, 4 of them living together, it’s crunch time. Forget all of the deeds etc. I’d either get married or move on. He sounds like the sort of guy who never quite gets round to marriage thing, as the children come along and your work comes second place. He’s obviously very protective of his financial position, which I think is great, but doesn’t tally with a LT partner that allegedly wants marriage.

I dont think OP has confirmed that her DP is a man? Not that it makes any difference in truth. But I'm not going to assume that any future change in earnings due to children/maternity leave would be down to the OP.

I would have a serious think about his motives personally OP, but from a strictly objective view I would say either (I) if you’re bearing 50% of the cost you get 50% of the benefit for that “piece” of the house (I.e. the deed of trust position) or (ii) if DP doesn’t want that you don’t pay anything towards the house (if he says that isn’t fair then I would take serious issue- he can’t have the whole house whilst only paying half the cost) and use that money to buy your own BTL property, so you’re both on a fair footing. If/ when you marry you both share cost & ownership of both properties 50/50.

DH bought our house before we met.

I didn't pay anything towards the mortgage until my name was on there. Before then, we split bills proportionally and I paid for things like meals out, days out etc. up to the cost of the mortgage. I also paid for all the costs of our pets - insurance, food etc.

But you are paying rent not the mortgage. If you were renting somewhere else you would not expect to get money back off the landlord. If I were you I'd move out and buy my own property and either live in it or rent it out. Why rely on him to be on the property ladder?

I don’t really understand your DP’s reservation about adding you as long as the proportions of ownership and the capital deposit is protected.

Especially in the context of an intention to marry.

It is common to own a house as ‘tenants in common’ where each party owns a defined amount of the property.

Do either of you have children with other people? Whose inheritance you are wishing to protect?

It is important that you build security for yourself. If you were not living in DP’s house would you be looking to save towards a mortgage of your own?

The current situation is unequal and unbalanced: your DP has security and is investing in that security. You do not have security, and are contributing to your DP’s investment.

Ask your DP if they are choosing their security over the relationship. Ask yourself if you can afford to choose the relationship over your security.

I agree with others that you would be paying rent anyway, if you two weren't together.

What does he suggest? I wouldn't marry someone in this situation, not with his attitude.

“DP is not happy with this as they think I shouldn't get the benefit of having a mortgage on a house when I did not put in any deposit or any effort into buying the house.”

That’s the bit that’s concerning tbh... that’s a pretty mean spirited reason and doesn’t bode well for marriage, children and what have you.

It’s not just like paying rent because you don’t have a relationship with your landlord, it’s just a straightforward business transaction - this shouldn’t be.

@Bluntness100

I don’t really understand this , if you were renting it would be no different. You’re paying for the roof over your head.

I can see why he’s not bang up for this. I can see why you’d want it. I cannot see why you think you’re entitled to a share of the property because you paid “rent” to live there.

But OP has said about getting every penny he has put into the house so far ring-fenced, and then going forward it's an equal contribution and should they split, the other partner would still receive a much larger share, rightly so, and OP would get half of what they had put in. Makes sense and seems fair.

If the partner isn't up for it, there's a way they are going to be up for marriage where OP would get more in a split- so they should be honest about that instead of dangling it.

No way*

Op is a man who is avoiding marriage/children but does want a financial investment.

Partner is a woman who is aware that he is dragging his heels on commitment (but not finances)

Or I could be totally wrong. But otherwise why avoid mentioning their sex or clarify when their marriage is planned.

@HollowTalk

I agree with others that you would be paying rent anyway, if you two weren't together.

What does he suggest? I wouldn't marry someone in this situation, not with his attitude.

Yes but paying rent to a landlord, not a partner who if they split would benefit greatly from the "rent" and OP would get nothing. Perhaps if he was honest about hesitation on having them added, OP could look to get their own mortgage rather than rent at all.