Why are posters on MN obsessed with others becoming carers as life goes on

[CateTown]

Any thread which mentions a significant ge gap relationship is met with cries of "you'll end up his carer" "you'll be wiping his bum when you're 45"

I don't know where I read it but apparently most people don't need that level of care until the last months of their lives (if at all).
I know loads of elderly people who live independently and manage (I assume) to wipe their own backsides.

It's the same when only children are mentioned "oh no - they'll end up caring for you on their own when you're old"

Do people really base their life choices on whether they might end up as a carer?

I agree with the poster who mentioned women in their 40s-50s in the ‘sandwich’ generation who use mumsnet a lot.

My parents were always independent and even as they became older they muddled through. Very suddenly they both became ill and very frail and during lockdown they couldn’t do anything, no shopping, no internet, no going out at all, no visitors, struggling with the house, totally relying on me for everything.

I don’t think you appreciate it until it happens to you. I have ‘young’ parents too.

Many friends of my age are going through similar with their parents. Yes many older people can live independently but also they can live for many years with awful health conditions eg dementia, Parkinson’s, diabetes, arthritis in my family alone.

I also know three people with early onset dementia with partners in their 40s and 50s. You just never know.

Prepared to get a kicking here, but you don't HAVE to care for elderly parents, do you? I barely have time to see my kids during the week, let alone care for parents. Currently, my dad is looking after my mum, who has dementia (undiagnosed though cos she won't go to a dr). But when he dies (inevitably first, as he has heart issues and drinks too much), I really won't have the time to step in.

@DinosaurDiana - or you learn to say "no, sorry, no can do" mum/dad. And yes sometimes there are unpleasant consequences to that decision but it is a decision. We are all entitled to set limits on how much time we spend providing support.

Also you don’t have to take on the role of caring for anyone I’d you don’t want to

Your experience of all grandparents living til their 90s and only one needing any kind of care is highly unusual. If all 4 had required care and all the family said they didn't want to take on the caring role if, as you claim, no one has to take it on if they don't want to , you'd have had an interesting time sorting it out .

@Ffsffsffsffsffs

My work colleague does shopping for her parents but that's it.

It's rarely JUST shopping though. It's more likely to be - collect shopping list, go to the supermarket, pay, load back into car, take to parents, unload car, stay for obligatory cuppa that will no doubt be eating into valuable family time. If they need help with shopping it's unlikely to be just that one thing they can't manage, and the mental load of being required to give that support can become overwhelming. The obligation. The guilt.

Sometimes, it is just shopping though.

Your list of go to the supermarket, pay, load back into car, take to parents, unload car... is literally part of shopping.

@Heyahun

Lolz yeah all my grandparents lived alone til their 90s - only one needed up in a care home for a year or so

Also you don’t have to take on the role of caring for anyone I’d you don’t want to 😂

@Heyahun

One of my parents were in a care home by their early 50s.

There's a choice, but everything leading up to the point of that person needing full care is either you do it, or let them struggle on and hope they don't come to harm. Services are not interested, especially if the person needing care refuses to acknowledge an issue. Conditions like dementia can show themselves several years before diagnosis is made, but the person themselves often don't realise it's happening. Very easy to say 'you don't have to do it' - much like the one who needs care, many don't realise they've fallen into the role until it's beyond fixing.

I don't know where I read it but apparently most people don't need that level of care until the last months of their lives (if at all)

I suspect that's optimistic, given the number of people in care homes or reliant on care at home. My mother has needed intimate care for the last three years and that is not going to change until she dies, which may be several years ahead.

I have noticed it on different threads about ageing parents never towards an older spouse.

What do old age couples do then, wipe each other's bums?

MN really is like an alternate universe sometimes.

Is it ageism for people to point out that the chances of someone needing more care is higher at 75 than 45?

Most people I know have had to provide care for their parents in some way. Come on mumsnet and some like to pretend that it's the norm to be running marathons at 80 and staunchly independent at 90.
People's experiences of old age differ substantially, and there's probably some class and wealth elements to throw in as well. The life expectancy between different areas changes drastically.

There's nothing wrong with age gap relationships, but anyone choosing one has to be mindful that whilst their friends are perhaps taking early retirement in their 50s to enjoy post children life, or going travelling in their 60s, they could find themselves spending years being at home with an 80+ year old, and life at 80 for many is not the same as 50/60 year old.

What stopped me is that I spent some time at that time with my own dad, who was late 50s, and I was shocked how much he had changed just in a year or two. Obviously, he wasn't at the bum-wiping stage, but there was much more mental acrobatics required in dealing with his new attitudes and needs

In his late 50s? I'm at that age, no mental aerobics needed to deal with me. What new attitudes did your dad acquire?

@LolaSmiles

Is it ageism for people to point out that the chances of someone needing more care is higher at 75 than 45?

Most people I know have had to provide care for their parents in some way. Come on mumsnet and some like to pretend that it's the norm to be running marathons at 80 and staunchly independent at 90.
People's experiences of old age differ substantially, and there's probably some class and wealth elements to throw in as well. The life expectancy between different areas changes drastically.

There's nothing wrong with age gap relationships, but anyone choosing one has to be mindful that whilst their friends are perhaps taking early retirement in their 50s to enjoy post children life, or going travelling in their 60s, they could find themselves spending years being at home with an 80+ year old, and life at 80 for many is not the same as 50/60 year old.

This sums up my thoughts entirely.

Whilst I am increasingly fed up with the ageism on MN i don't think it is ageist to point out the likely outcome of having a relationship with someone of your parents' generation. I know an 80 something who still plays tennis; I know many 80-90 somethings in their own homes, most (not all but definitely a majority) need an increasing amount of support even if it's not if the 'wiping bum' variety.

It's not an 'obsession' unless you're making a point with hyperbole

Nowt wrong with a bit of hyperbole on AIBU where people are frequently raging and fuming

I think you don't really understand what 'caring' for an older person can actually mean, I assume because you've not yet had to do it. You are right that many, many older people live independently and get along just fine as you see it. But what you don't realise is that there is frequently someone in the background, making sure that the kitchen tap gets fixed when it drips, or the washing machine is replaced, or the broken gate is mended. Same person who will organise doctor's appointments, take the person to hospital appointments, fill up medication boxes on a weekly basis. Neighbours who keep an eye out to see if the milk is taken in. A grandchild who makes sure the shopping is delivered every week. Lots of seemingly independent older people have someone in the background supporting them. My mum remained in her home until the last year of her life - her dementia became too much for those of us around her keeping an eye out to continue to manage. But she did really, really well for a number of years because we were there. You wouldn't have known looking at her pushing her trolley round Asda. She was capable of running the hoover round and dusting her own home. We didn't need to wipe her backside but we did need to be aware of what was going on for herand make special trips and be careful with medication and in my case, go part time to be able to help her. Caring isn't just about that end of life, nursing care that the majority of us will require at some point. There is a lot more going on than you realise until you end up having to do it yourself.

In his late 50s? I'm at that age, no mental aerobics needed to deal with me. What new attitudes did your dad acquire?
He needed a lot of quiet time during the day, for example. Just a couple of years earlier he was very happy to multi-task with his grandchildren screaming in the background, but now he could not even sit down and answer an email or watch a film if the kids were playing in the room. Got snappy and argumentative, first time I saw this traits in him in my life. I had to take the children out for prolonged periods of time just to give him some rest.
He got much more set in his ways and routines. From an adventurous, spontaneous and active man he turned into a meticulous planner, with quite severe anxiety if we didn't have a list of things to pack for a day trip, for example.

His intellectual world started shrinking very fast. He's a research scientist in the past and used to approach every question with an open mind and honest enquiry. Now he seems to have a pre-conceived answer to everything and while he still reads a lot of his topic, he concentrates only on the echo chamber of opinions that match his own, everyone else with differing opinions seemed to turn into an idiot. Discussion and debate became quite tricky, and we used to enjoy it a lot.

He's not interested to try new stuff. He was visiting me in the UK and I had to order a specific dish soap from an ethnic shop because he claimed everything else gives him a heartburn, and I couldn't use the dishwasher as it leaves residue - had to be done by hand. After that, he brought his own dish soap on visits (as well as many other things he is used to) which took probably 50% of his luggage. This was the guy who had zero interest in any household stuff a couple of years ago (quite patriarchal culture too, so more of a norm). Mum struggles with it a lot, as there's now apparently the "right" way of doing things around the house, and it is not how she's been doing it for almost 40 years.

Not saying anything of this is unmanageable, but I can see how something like this would be difficult in a partner.

I can't think of any families I know where the parents or grandparents lived past 80 and didn't need some form of care from the generation below. As others have said, even the "just doing the shopping" level of care can be a lot to take on, especially when there are still children at home, you're still working yourself and the older generation may not live close to you.

Because so many people (women) end up as carers. I did. And it was never a conscious decision to do so, it is often small steps to get there but then you look back and can't believe where you are.
My parents were young too. Both stricken with appalling degenerative illnesses. One physical, one mental.
So the whole 'not your age, it's your attitude' is quite insulting.
I never thought we as a family would end up here. 5 years ago my parents were mid 60s, in splendid health, retired, with a great and rich life. Within 2 years I was literally wiping bums.
Caring has broken me, physically and mentally. I suppose I had a choice, but it's never that simple.

My children would no doubt tell you that I’m in remarkably good shape, fit and healthy with only a couple of minor issues that are well controlled. That’s because it’s what I let them think. Yes, I’m in good shape, yes, until recently I was working nearly full time, yes, I’m cheerful and happy. But also - I’m in almost constant pain from arthritic knees, have various muscle aches and spasms, keep a very close eye on my heart and worry about arrhythmia and clots, and know that in the next few years I will have to leave my much loved home and move to somewhere where I won’t have to spend a fortune to keep warm, drive to the shops or walk up four flights of stairs with my shopping because I won’t be able to. Ageing gets us all, however much we don’t want it to.

I am back at work full time after 15 years not working, in my 50s. I still do all the domestics, as dh is retired and doesn't think to do the laundry, run the vacuum round etc unless I leave a list for him, as he is fully immersed in his hobbies. Ds is not working, supposedly job hunting, but just seems to mooch all day.

My Mum is 80, and doesn't see that my now working full time should preclude me from providing the same level of attention dancing and service I provided until January. I have to go over again today to sort things out for her, and will be doing so again next weekend. As she gets older, she needs more help, and as we are her bubble, we provide it. She also likes to come over for the weekend once a month or so, which can be draining in its own way.

Thank you @forinborin for your thought provoking reply.

I wonder if we all need to (for want of a better word) audit our thoughts, behaviour, actions at various stages of our lives. We don't need to stop being vibrant, engaged, curious, reflective as we age. We can make decision not to.

Oh ffs OP do you really think you can just decide not to get dementia or be in constant pain? Or that they wont change you if you do?

@CateTown

Thank you *@forinborin* for your thought provoking reply.

I wonder if we all need to (for want of a better word) audit our thoughts, behaviour, actions at various stages of our lives. We don't need to stop being vibrant, engaged, curious, reflective as we age. We can make decision not to.

That’s got to be the most naive comment I’ve read on here in a very long time.

We don't need to stop being vibrant, engaged, curious, reflective as we age. We can make decision not to.

Most of my friends are in their 60s, a couple early 70s who have never stopped being vibrant, engaged, curious etc as we age. Also true of many 80 year old relatives. So yes you are right that we don't need to stop. Where you are over simplifying things is that - whilst yes, we can adopt a positive attitude towards ageing - in many, many cases that decision is taken out of our hands and isn't ours to make.

@Porcupineintherough

Oh ffs OP do you really think you can just decide not to get dementia or be in constant pain? Or that they wont change you if you do?

I was clearly responding to forinborin's points.

OP have you been in the situation of providing care to an elderly or disabled person? Intimate care? Can I ask on what basis you consider it to be a rarity?

It is actually quite common and becoming ever more so for the reasons explained by a PP. It is an incredibly tough station especially when you have particularly young dependent children and it is not ageist to say that. I think you are speaking from a place of blind naivety.