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Only vaccinated being evacuated from St. Vincnent

87 replies

millenialblush · 10/04/2021 12:07

abc7.com/volcano-in-st-vincent-erupts-as-thousands-evacuate-/10501485/

Has the world gone utterly mad? The PM of st. Vincent has said that only the vaccinated can board evacuation cruise ships or be granted temporary status to stay on other islands during the massive volcanic eruption.

This is the 2-tier society in all its glory.

OP posts:
millenialblush · 10/04/2021 12:08

*excuse sp error in title

OP posts:
Bluebird2021 · 10/04/2021 12:12

If they have not been vaccinated then they are moved to a safe zone on the island....simple solution

Why isn’t that good enough for you?

ShaneTheThird · 10/04/2021 12:22

Why isn’t that good enough for you?

Are you actually joking?! If this safe zone was that safe then everyone should go to it. If everyone else has to actually keave the island then the safe zone isnt actually that safe. As far as evacuation goes that meana everyone should have acess to being evacuated not literally leaving people behind because they havent had a vaccine that is appalling and inhumane.

millenialblush · 10/04/2021 12:26

Would it be good enough for you and your family? Shelters are already over capacity and the island will be left in ruins.

Personally I find it a sad direction we are moving in, where those who have had the vaccine get privileges over those who haven't, in this case life savings ones.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 10/04/2021 12:26

Or perhaps, the fastest way to get everyone to safety is to use both the safe area of the island and the ships.

How to decide who goes where...

zafferana · 10/04/2021 12:27

There isn't enough space in the safe zone for everyone, so those who've been vaccinated are being moved off the island. St Vincent is a small island - there simply aren't enough empty properties in the safe zone to accommodate everyone.

Aprilx · 10/04/2021 12:28

@ShaneTheThird

Why isn’t that good enough for you?

Are you actually joking?! If this safe zone was that safe then everyone should go to it. If everyone else has to actually keave the island then the safe zone isnt actually that safe. As far as evacuation goes that meana everyone should have acess to being evacuated not literally leaving people behind because they havent had a vaccine that is appalling and inhumane.

Don’t be so ridiculous. They are spreading people out to different safe spots as presumably they cannot fit everyone in a single safe area. Th either islands presumably have agreed to accept vaccinated people, same as the cruise ships where an infection is likely to spread quickly.

It is a pragmatic solution. It is not a two tier society, there will be a period of a few months where some people will be vaccinated, others not and the situation is being managed.

duvetdreaming · 10/04/2021 12:28

this safe zone was that safe then everyone should go to it. If everyone else has to actually keave the island then the safe zone isnt actually that safe.

If they move some people off the island then that reduces the load on the infrastructure so it's better placed to help the people who are left and makes (for example) spaces in temporary accommodation more available.

millenialblush · 10/04/2021 12:29

@zafferana so you think dividing by vaccinated and unvaccinated is reasonable? By all reports there isnt enough shelter for the unvaccinated in the safe zones anyway.

OP posts:
picklemewalnuts · 10/04/2021 12:29

The last thing an area experiencing a natural disaster needs is a Covid outbreak fuelled by over crowding.

Moondust001 · 10/04/2021 12:31

I don't know if you have ever managed an actual crisis situation, but I suspect not. So let me explain. You have a crisis called a world-wide pandemic. It's caused by a highly transmissible virus. That virus is present in your population.

So when a volcano erupts that puts life in danger, the correct response is not to shove everyone on cruise ships where there isn't space to socially distance (you might have noticed what happened on cruise ships just a short year ago?), or to evacuate them to islands that can't take them because they are struggling to get the virus under control themselves. Especially since refugee facilities on those islands will be non-existent, and the kinds of "facilities" available will increase rather than decrease the transmission and put everyone - refugees and local people - at greater risk.

So what you do is you contain the risk, managing that where, if the worst happens and it leads to a larger outbreak, you can better control transmission, medical resources and other services. And you encourage people to take up the vaccine as soon as they get there in order to start the process of reducing the risk, bearing in mind that it will take several weeks to substantially reduce that risk anyway, paving the way, if people do need further evacuation, for that to be done as safely as possible. Which is exactly what the Prime Minister is doing.

Eruptions are generally very manageable risks. You can relocate people out of the immediate risk area, but further evacuation at very short notice, if necessary (and it isn't often necessary) is generally easier to manage.

And yes, I used to to this sort of thing for a living. They are acting totally sensibly. Please don't use their situation to to illustrate a completely irrelevant comparison to the UK, vaccines and vaccine passports. I am fairly sure you will find that the only passport issues that the people of St Vincent have are very different ones than the ones you have.

ElaineMarieBenes · 10/04/2021 12:36

@Moondust001 beautifully set out - what’s not to love when it comes to good risk management!

zafferana · 10/04/2021 12:36

[quote millenialblush]@zafferana so you think dividing by vaccinated and unvaccinated is reasonable? By all reports there isnt enough shelter for the unvaccinated in the safe zones anyway.[/quote]
Yes I do. Other islands have the right to say they don't want hundreds of un-vaccinated people being moved to their islands. Many islands in the Caribbean are doing really well with containing Covid, vaccinating their populations and they're eager to welcome back vaccinated tourists this summer. The last thing I expect they want is to welcome lots of evacuees from St Vincent that results in a virus outbreak for their trouble. No good deed goes unpunished and all that.

RozHuntleysStump · 10/04/2021 12:38

God, so much throthing over nothing.

LemonTT · 10/04/2021 12:39

I wouldn’t have thought cruise ships were safe for unvaccinated. Far better to be in fresh air and on land when evacuated. I think the stuffing vaccinated people on a boat is the lesser option.

picklemewalnuts · 10/04/2021 12:40

Not going the way OP thought, this one.

frumpety · 10/04/2021 12:40

I don't think the authorities of St Vincent own the cruise ships that are willing to take people ? So if the cruise ship owners are specifying vaccinated people only, there isn't a lot the authorities can do is there ?

SoupDragon · 10/04/2021 12:42

[quote millenialblush]@zafferana so you think dividing by vaccinated and unvaccinated is reasonable? By all reports there isnt enough shelter for the unvaccinated in the safe zones anyway.[/quote]
So it makes perfect sense to make more room my moving those who present least risk to the populations of other islands or the more crowded conditions on a ship.

Bloodypunkrockers · 10/04/2021 12:42

@Moondust001

I don't know if you have ever managed an actual crisis situation, but I suspect not. So let me explain. You have a crisis called a world-wide pandemic. It's caused by a highly transmissible virus. That virus is present in your population.

So when a volcano erupts that puts life in danger, the correct response is not to shove everyone on cruise ships where there isn't space to socially distance (you might have noticed what happened on cruise ships just a short year ago?), or to evacuate them to islands that can't take them because they are struggling to get the virus under control themselves. Especially since refugee facilities on those islands will be non-existent, and the kinds of "facilities" available will increase rather than decrease the transmission and put everyone - refugees and local people - at greater risk.

So what you do is you contain the risk, managing that where, if the worst happens and it leads to a larger outbreak, you can better control transmission, medical resources and other services. And you encourage people to take up the vaccine as soon as they get there in order to start the process of reducing the risk, bearing in mind that it will take several weeks to substantially reduce that risk anyway, paving the way, if people do need further evacuation, for that to be done as safely as possible. Which is exactly what the Prime Minister is doing.

Eruptions are generally very manageable risks. You can relocate people out of the immediate risk area, but further evacuation at very short notice, if necessary (and it isn't often necessary) is generally easier to manage.

And yes, I used to to this sort of thing for a living. They are acting totally sensibly. Please don't use their situation to to illustrate a completely irrelevant comparison to the UK, vaccines and vaccine passports. I am fairly sure you will find that the only passport issues that the people of St Vincent have are very different ones than the ones you have.

There's no place for logic and experience on this thread

Stop being so sensible

KoalaOok · 10/04/2021 12:43

I don't think crowding unvaccinated people on a boat is a good idea if the alternative is safe?

CloudFormations · 10/04/2021 12:43

It makes me uncomfortable too OP, but what is the solution? It would make everything much worse to put everyone on a cruise ship and cause a coronavirus outbreak. I don’t know what alternative there is except to try and maintain social distancing among the unvaccinated population.

Of course if that isn’t possible and the unvaccinated people are going to be shoved into cramped, overcrowded conditions and risk an outbreak anyway, it’s absolutely not an acceptable solution. It only works if the safe zone will actually help prevent an outbreak.

KoalaOok · 10/04/2021 12:44

Maybe the CoVax people could prioritise the island for vaccine supplies so the people don't have to worry about covid and a volcanic erruption

Bloodypunkrockers · 10/04/2021 12:44

So OP, what would be your solution?

Moondust001 · 10/04/2021 12:44

@millenialblush

Would it be good enough for you and your family? Shelters are already over capacity and the island will be left in ruins.

Personally I find it a sad direction we are moving in, where those who have had the vaccine get privileges over those who haven't, in this case life savings ones.

The island was in "ruins" before this. 50% of the people live in poverty and conditions on the island are appalling and life-threatening for many of them all the time. Did you care last week? When you couldn't use this human disaster somewhere else to make the point about why you shouldn't have to prove you've had the jab to go to the pub? Did you worry about the last 12 natural disasters they have faced in the last 50 years that have devastated their economy?

You don't have a clue what you are talking about. Frankly I find your use of this disaster to push a UK agenda about vaccines in poor taste.

And if you are worried about them not having enough resources to provide decent shelters - and they don't - then put your money where your mouth is an donate.

There's details of one place you can do this in this article www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/st-vincent-volcano-eruption, but in the next few days DEC will undoubtedly be setting up a specific appeal for help (www.dec.org.uk/) or you can donate to Medicins Sans Frontieres who I know are already on site -msf.org.uk/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwmcWDBhCOARIsALgJ2QeOvTSnm4pG2E3MbyQfrv9xp8BxVJEKKkzw26C9fa__lihwZ3SR6t0aAgzvEALw_wcB

Windinmyhair · 10/04/2021 12:50

It may be that it is more feasible to continue a vaccination programme in the safe spaces on the island, whereas not on the cruise ships.

Therefore it makes sense to keep the people that still need the jab, in one place.

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