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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Only vaccinated being evacuated from St. Vincnent

87 replies

millenialblush · 10/04/2021 12:07

abc7.com/volcano-in-st-vincent-erupts-as-thousands-evacuate-/10501485/

Has the world gone utterly mad? The PM of st. Vincent has said that only the vaccinated can board evacuation cruise ships or be granted temporary status to stay on other islands during the massive volcanic eruption.

This is the 2-tier society in all its glory.

OP posts:
cardibach · 10/04/2021 14:21

@whatisthislifesofullofcare

So, if we extend the same risk management, are we all okay about turning away unvaccinated refugees? If we have to protect our community etc? Seems a bit of double think going on.
Well, we are talking about massively different numbers aren’t we? And refuges get isolated anyway due to the asylum systems...
twolipstulip · 10/04/2021 14:25

@picklemewalnuts

The last thing an area experiencing a natural disaster needs is a Covid outbreak fuelled by over crowding.
This in spades
SoupDragon · 10/04/2021 14:28

When in the history of ever have people been left in an unsafe zone due to a natural disaster in case a virus goes round the displaced people?

Never. Not even now.

Squidelicious · 10/04/2021 14:31

@cardibach refugees don't get isolated in many cases, depends how they have arrived.

Moondust001 · 10/04/2021 14:46

@whatisthislifesofullofcare

So, if we extend the same risk management, are we all okay about turning away unvaccinated refugees? If we have to protect our community etc? Seems a bit of double think going on.
Hmm. Don't even go there. What we do is stick them in camps that our own inspectors have condemned as inhumane and unfit for human habitation. You know that saying about people in glass houses? Caribbean islands may have few choices because they are poor - but many of those poor islands are taking thousands of refugees right now. We are a rich nation, and yet we are not remotely ashamed of the conditions in which we house asylum seekers. Priti Patel has said that they are good enough for our soldiers (they aren't - British troops haven't used the camps in years) so asylum seekers shouldn't be complaining. Have a look here if you want to see the "humane conditions" that a rich 1st world country uses www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-56325360

But I am positive that there are many people on St Vincents more than willing to come to the UK. Perhaps you should speak to Priti about arranging it?

Moondust001 · 10/04/2021 14:48

@jebthesheep

Moondust wins! Thank you for your common sense and for all the work you have done for the vulnerable people on the planet over the years. My next MSF donation is in your name.
I don't need thanks, but the donation will be well used I am sure. It's hard to be thanked for something I loved so much - it seems wrong somehow!
ListeningQuietly · 10/04/2021 15:06

with people like @Moondust001in the world
the shit decisions of certain politicians can be moderated.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 10/04/2021 15:07

Let's take this into hypotheticals - like in a Zombie movie.

There's an outbreak of a Zombie virus, but scientists have managed to find effective vaccinations against it that are being rolled out, but not everybody has had it yet. There are also very good treatments and, in any case, most people recover from it and are no longer Zombies after a fortnight of eating brains, but there are some, older, medically vulnerable or just plain unlucky people who are likely to need more intensive medical treatment or die.

There's an island where, on top of the virus, a volcano has seen fit to erupt, putting everybody at risk. You can't get everybody out at once.

Do you bundle everybody in together, knowing that this will inevitably lead to spreading the Zombie virus amongst the refugees on the ships arriving to transport them to other islands and the general, also not fully vaccinated, populations of the places that will take them? The issue with this is that everybody on the boats who hasn't been vaccinated is likely to contract the Zombie virus, so the boat companies refuse to take them, knowing that the intended destinations are also going to say 'no, we can't handle a mass outbreak'?

Or do you opt to place those unvaccinated in a relatively safe place from the volcano on the island whilst taking out those who are already vaccinated first? You then don't have to worry about those vaccinated people, as they are already on their way to safety. This enables you to then provide the opportunity for the remaining people to be vaccinated en masse.

The islands that have taken the first boatloads aren't bogged down with a Zombie outbreak affecting both refugees and the resident population. They are therefore willing and able to take further boats of people. Other places step in and say they'll take some, as it's already been seen that the refugees are not bringing the Zombie virus with them and they will be able to manage providing food and medical care for them.

If somebody on the island in the safe zone then becomes a Zombie, they're easy to spot and separate/treat (because it's not an irreversible Zombie virus) whilst others continue to get vaccinations and join the boats.

Eventually, you're left with a small number of Zombies and the volcano increasing in scale of eruption. Most of the Zombies will get better, but they need specialist care - other countries then say 'we can cope with treating a few zombies, as the refugees we've already taken haven't overwhelmed us'. Said zombies then get safely transported off the island for medical treatment.

Result: the overwhelming majority of islanders are safe, well and neither Zombies nor burned to a crisp by the volcano.

It's common sense. You get the ones out that are less of a risk, less likely to overwhelm the resources of those who don't actually have to offer help in the first place, less likely to cause the escape route to be closed off to everybody. And then you reduce the risk posed by the ones next in line. And then the next. Until everybody's out, the volcano gets to continue, all but a small number are safe.

Admittedly, I wouldn't like it much if I were currently hiding a zombie bite - but they're always the people who fuck it up for everybody else in the movies, anyway.

Lostinacloud · 10/04/2021 16:40

Your comparison to a zombie movie resonates. Except for me the zombies are all the people being led blindly into giving up their freedoms and self autonomy and allowing themselves to be convinced that segregating people based on their personal health information is ok Confused

ghostyslovesheets · 10/04/2021 16:59

or people who understand infection, risk and how to prevent the spread of disease?

But you crack on - maybe volunteer in a covid ward with no mask or PPE - because it's not really serious is it Hmm

leave the critical thinking to people who have a grasp on reality

Londonmummy66 · 10/04/2021 17:25

@Moondust001- out of interest how do you get into helping at disasters?

DGRossetti · 10/04/2021 17:28

There's no place for logic and experience on this thread

Or the UK generally.

Lostinacloud · 10/04/2021 17:52

@ghostyslovesheets happily would do that actually because like most people when I had covid, I felt like I was under the weather for 3 days and then fully recovered and got back on with my life. How’s that for logic? I was one of the 99.6% of people who survived!

ArcheryAnnie · 10/04/2021 18:08

Moondust001 thank you for such clear information!

Moondust001 · 10/04/2021 18:12

[quote Londonmummy66]@Moondust001- out of interest how do you get into helping at disasters?[/quote]
Almost everyone comes in via one of two routes. Either professional background, or the military (or even a combination of both). Most agencies don't "just" do disasters - it's humanitarian relief, so you could end up in war zones too.

For me, I studied medicine and qualified as a doctor; then volunteered / worked with MSF and discovered that much as I liked the medicine, I also had a bent for logistics - the planning and organising side of things. Which meant that I had the two sets of skills to operate in "rapid response" initiatives because I could supervise and deliver medical interventions but could see the bigger picture. But there are many people involved in such things - drivers, engineers, a plethora of medical and support staff, translators ... imagine all the things that you need to build a small village and we need all of the people, either imported or locally, who can build and make that village function.

If you want to help but don't have the right skills or capacity to do it, actually the thing we need most is fundraisers. Not just for the actual disaster, but for afterwards too. When there is a humanitarian crisis, countries from around the world - especially the rich countries - promise money to help. It looks good on the news headlines. It rarely arrives. It is quietly forgotten about. So whilst it is true that some NGO's eat up proportions of the money given in running costs that are hard to justify in some cases; and there is undoubtedly some corruption in governments (and we need to be careful about assumptions on that one - have a look where PPE contracts in the UK were awarded), the truth is that often the money just doesn't arrive, or it arrives in a way that is of no use to people on the ground. So we often don't have the money to do as much as we'd like.

For those who are interested, I have been speaking to friends in Cuba. Cuba gets a lot of bad press, sometimes deserved but often not. One things they are very good at is helping others. They have landed two medical teams on St Vincents and are supporting people with medical and other supplies. Another team is en route. There are many people across the Caribbean working to help in many ways, And South Korea, who delivered the first Covax supplies only days ago, are promising a further urgent delivery as soon as they can get them there.

It is things like this that renews my faith in people, after a year of curtain twitchers and anonymous reporting of neighbours. The pandemic has made our personal world so small, but it's a gloriously big world out there and it is full of amazing people.

Moondust001 · 10/04/2021 18:15

PS - I should add that an essential qualification is also to have vaccines against everything and its family - people afraid of vaccines shouldn't apply.

Londonmummy66 · 10/04/2021 18:42

Thanks Moondust. Very interesting - I used to do some response work with the Red Cross but more on the admin side. Sadly the one thing I am absolutely hopeless at is asking people for money so I would be the most useless fund raiser in the world. Perhaps I'd better stick to just bossing all the other volunteers around at the vaccine centre.....

ghostyslovesheets · 10/04/2021 18:46

[quote Lostinacloud]@ghostyslovesheets happily would do that actually because like most people when I had covid, I felt like I was under the weather for 3 days and then fully recovered and got back on with my life. How’s that for logic? I was one of the 99.6% of people who survived![/quote]
yeah and I caught Covid and had long covid and was unwell for 12 weeks - despite initially having it mildly - my disabled sister in law dies of it - as did my children's grandfather - so well done for having it mildly - feel free to avoid being vaccinated - and try to see the world outside of your own narrow experiences

lots of people have died or suffered long term maybe lifelong damage - but as long as you are okay fuck everyone else

MyFuzzyBoy · 10/04/2021 19:32

This is completely warped. Anyone who can’t see this too has been completely conditioned. This is not the world that I want for my children.

cardibach · 10/04/2021 19:47

[quote Squidelicious]@cardibach refugees don't get isolated in many cases, depends how they have arrived.[/quote]
They do if we know about them. And if we don’t, what documentation they have is irrelevant. It’s a non-point.

Mumoftwoinprimary · 10/04/2021 19:52

@Moondust001 - your posts are fascinating. Would you be willing to do an AMA at some point - I’d love to hear more about how it all works.

SoupDragon · 10/04/2021 19:53

@MyFuzzyBoy

This is completely warped. Anyone who can’t see this too has been completely conditioned. This is not the world that I want for my children.
No, they are just capable of reading properly.

Have you bothered to read the thread and actually thought about it?

LEMtheoriginal · 10/04/2021 20:04

Fucking hell, its like something out of dystopian horror Sad

ListeningQuietly · 10/04/2021 20:08

@LEMtheoriginal

Fucking hell, its like something out of dystopian horror Sad
What is ?
Elletine · 10/04/2021 20:17

@Moondust001 you are an inspiration!!!

@Lostinacloud ... your username is very appropriate.