To say no to going back to office until I've had vaccine & restrictions lifted?

[Willow79]

I live in Scotland and have been wfh for a year. I'm late 20s and asthmatic. Basically I wouldnt feel safe going back to physical work until I've at least had the vaccine. I know I'm young but I have friends with long covid and the prospect really scares me.

Anyway over the last 2 weeks my boss has been asking colleagues to meet our clients in physical meetings again. They travel there together by car and spend time with multiple teams of people.

Today was the first time the boss suggested I do this soon and another client also put pressure on me for the first time saying they want to meet soon as things go back to 'normal'.

AIBU to not want to do this seeing as the rule is a phased return to work in June?

Many happy to go shopping, send their children to school, book holidays but won’t go back to the office as too risky

People haven't has a choice but to send their children to school? And many people have been sending their children in knowing that it's by far the best thing for their children and not wanting them to suffer any longer, whilst simultaneously being really worried about the risk to their own or to their families health. I live with my parents, until they were vaccinated I was really worried that my DC would catch the virus at school and pass it to them.

Can't comment on holidays. Haven't been abroad for 10 years. Bit irrelevant anyway when people are booking ahead and anticipating they will have had the vaccine in the next few months before they go on holiday.

As for shops, slightly different going to the supermarket for as short a time as possible whilst wearing a mask when you have no choice but to go buy food, to spending 8 hours a day in the office when you know your job could be done just as effectively at home.

@Willow79

Exactly this!

For people who 'don't have the luxury' I am really sorry about that. But that doesn't mean others should be forced back in before risk assessments carried out and workers feel safe.

The fact is the job can still entirely be done from home and that is the legislation until June.

There is no "legislation" in Scotland about working from home. Work from home IF YOU CAN.

Everyone always bangs on about how they are so productive working from home and just love being on Zoom calls. But there are an equal number of threads saying how much people hate Zoom calls and how it's a less personal, more remote way of communicating. It's a second-rate way of working in most situations. Fine for an emergency situation, not fine long term.

So your boss has probably had feedback that clients don't like remote working and want to get back to face to face meetings. It's not illegal to meet people in person in a work context. Clients pay your wages.

Thousands of people have asthma and if your asthma was severe, you'd have had the vaccine. If you haven't you're not vulnerable.

Think you just need to get on with it, tbh and stop whinging.

This is kindly meant, OP, but what if one dose of the vaccine does not allay your fears sufficiently? Will you delay for a further twelve weeks?

I think a lot of people are going to have to untangle their (reasonable, valid) concerns about their workplace’s Covid security from their (understandable) anxieties about returning to work.

In person meetings are far more effective than zoom so I completely understand why your boss wants to reinstate.

You're in your 20s, you're fine. Go to work.

And some people think they are so much better than those others, and have to be accommodated indefinitely no matter what.

See that right there, just sounds bitter to me. Why on earth does this mean that people think they are better? If you have a job that can be done from home, why is it wrong to want to continue just for the short amount of time it should now be until everyone is vaccinated?

If the business starts losing clients then that will put your employment in jeopardy. If your employer has done a risk assessment and put in place the necessary measures, masks, ventilation etc then YABU.

@confusedfriday

Makes me feel so... “disposable”, posts like yours. So many people, even those who are vulnerable, worked from the start, face to face, every day during pandemic. And some people think they are so much better than those others, and have to be accommodated indefinitely no matter what.

The rule has been "work from home if you can". It is blindingly obvious that that cannot apply to many jobs. But where it does, employers should obey the rules and guidance. It's nothing personal against post(wo)men or nurses or teachers or shop workers - it's simply the case that if you have an office job you can almost certainly work from home and keep out of the way. Yes of course you have a lesser risk of getting infected. But you also have a lesser risk of passing on the infection too.

If the client demands mean face to face meetings are required then the business cant really afford to not do this. A lot of businesses are fighting for their survival ,and if the business goes down everyone will be out of a job.
Refusing to go back to work and talk of reporting to the Environmental health don't auger well for a good long term working relationship

@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
So just because someone’s got a job that can in theory be done from home, they deserve to live more than others? Sorry, but it’s all about “taking part”, including taking part in recovering the economy that’s been destroyed by a pandemic. OP’s manager decided she needs to start performing her duties face to face, and I’m sure it wouldn’t be more dangerous than for a regular supermarket worker, who’s expected to serve OP, they are vulnerable or not. If the job is THAT dangerous for the op, she may as well resign because there will be numerous candidates, many of those will be vulnerable but they NEED to work. I can assure you.

Mumsnet appears to have been invaded by a load of right wing fascists since Brexit.

It’s all about re-building the great Capitalist economy and fuck the little person.

@poppycat10
You see, teachers can also do their teaching through zoom, it’s perfectly possible!! Not ideal, mind you. But not impossible. So how many parents agree to that?

I think you need to meet employers half way , we are seeing a few similar threads now where people reluctant to go back to the office .
My employer doesn’t want everyone back full time until everyone has had the vaccine so I’m down to work 3 days in office 2 wfh .
For me personally the odd day at home is nice but I do like being in the office . I don’t think I’ve got too comfortable at home knowing that I’ll be back full time one day .
There is risks in all ways going to the shop etc but you need to make a compromise , wfh was never permanent . When are you going to feel safe ?

@corcaithecat
Economy? Simply saying putting food on children’s table.

All this "it;s illegal to go to the office in Scotland unless it's an essential business" - not true.

The rules say "The Scottish government has said you should only go to work if it's not possible for you to work from home." Although it is physically possible for the OP to work from home, her employer and more importantly the clients are saying working at home is having a detrimental effect on their business.

Agree with lots of others that after a year of being at home there is a whole group of people struggling with the idea of having to actually go into the office to do their jobs.

Relevant Scottish guidance here

www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-for-homeworking/pages/where-we-are-now/

And legislation here
www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2020/344/schedule/5/part/2

Employers are required to have regard to relevant Scottish guidance (which is to work from home if possible) and to implement relevant covid safe measures when operating a business (ie when working in office)

Based on what OP said its not at all clear that her employer is complying.

I think there are some harsh responses and lack of appreciating, as @Scottishskifun and others have said, that the requirements are different in Scotland. It's been made clear that employers should be facilitating working from home. I think offices in Scotland should use this period to plan ahead to when they can re-open, so that the necessary risk assessments and arrangements are carried out and implemented.

"Working from home as a public health measure in response to the pandemic has been a crucial factor in mitigating the transmission of the virus amongst the general population. Working from home has not been a choice for the organisations that have implemented it, nor was it a choice for the workers who are practising it. Those who are working from home are contributing to the public health effort. People working from home are making it safer for those workers who cannot work from home – it is an effort we must continue. Employers should continue to support employees to work from home wherever possible." Ref: www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-guidance-for-homeworking/

I would absolutely draw the line at sharing a car and I am not the overly anxious type. I don't actually know when it's allowed but I went to a club running session on Tuesday evening and two of the ladies arrived in one car. I was a bit surprised. And it was the day it snowed, so not a warm day when you could have all the windows open

As I say it should be possible to have client meetings in a covid secure way though - either outside or in a well ventilated space.

@Willow79

So when you spoke to your boss and outlined your fears and requested to continue WFH and not car share, what did they say?

If you honestly believe that your company is not essential and is flouting the Scottish rules, what happened when you reported them?

I'm sorry you've had so many people taking out their anger on you - for heavens sake it's not your fault that other people haven't been able to work at home! If you don't feel your manager is being reasonable can you speak to your union?

You absolutely aren't unreasonable. The advice in Scotland is still to wfh if u can and no non essential travel. Surely they can't make you, just repeat the above. Tell them Ul be happy to once ur vaccinated but don't want to take any unnecessary risks.

What is the company saying in general about when u will return to office. My workplace has said pilots to be ran with some teams at the very end of summer to start bringing ppl bk in. Unlikely we will be bk in office till next yr for our new blended working.

I went to the office for the first time this week, it was exhausting. Think I walked miles with the one way system in the office every time u want toilet or a drink etc.

I won't be rushing bk 😂 I'm in central Scotland, got the train in to Glasgow. 4 folk got on at my stop but by time we got to Glasgow there was someone sitting in seat infront probably about 50cm from me which wasn't ideal! Streets were empty too.

[quote confusedfriday]@StrawberryLipstickStateOfMind
So just because someone’s got a job that can in theory be done from home, they deserve to live more than others? Sorry, but it’s all about “taking part”, including taking part in recovering the economy that’s been destroyed by a pandemic. OP’s manager decided she needs to start performing her duties face to face, and I’m sure it wouldn’t be more dangerous than for a regular supermarket worker, who’s expected to serve OP, they are vulnerable or not. If the job is THAT dangerous for the op, she may as well resign because there will be numerous candidates, many of those will be vulnerable but they NEED to work. I can assure you.[/quote]
Lol! How is it living more than others? I started my job from home last July and I have honestly HATED the fact that I've never been to our office. I've not met my line manager in person. I've missed going out to work greatly. It's not living more- it's been miserable. But I'm at least grateful to have an employer that has been cautious and has cared about our health, and who has also done all they can to help counter the negative aspects of WFH.

You aren't wrong, that it probably wouldn't be difficult for employers to fill posts right now. It's just a shame that there are so many people who are willing to accept employers treating them poorly as the norm. I think a decent employer, if they value their employees, will be listening to them at the moment. A lot of time there is a way forward with compromise surely?- I agree that if it's affecting the business of course an employer is going to want people back at work but if it's a case of meeting clients then outside could be an option? Or in the office with safeguards in place if that's what staff want- purely for client meetings. Definitely no car sharing

I say this as someone who would happily go back to living like it's 2019 tomorrow but appreciate not everyone feels like this- you can't expect people to not have been affected by the events of the last year.

Sick of the comments too along the lines of 'you're in your 20s- get on with it'. Tbh the risk has never been particularly high for anyone who catches coronavirus, not of working age. Yes far higher for people in their 50s/60s but still minimal. People in their 20s mostly haven't been vaccinated yet. Why shouldn't people have a care over their own health, when they shouldn't be too far off of the vaccine themself?

Face to face meetings can be done in a covid safe way I'm sure, wwith the right distancing and ventilation, but car sharing is ridiculous - you might as well sit on someone's knee! No way would I agree to car sharing with colleagues or clients!

OP your only option is to use the current legislation and laws to back up your stance on this. Keep your fears and emotion out of any discussions. But bear in mind when restrictions are lifted you will have to do what is reasonably asked of you regarding your work or risk disciplinary proceedings.

Do you need to car share? Why can't you travel separately? Can the meetings be done in a 'covid safe' manner, ie. socially distanced with masks on, preferably in large well ventilated rooms? These will likely be restrictions that will be in place for some time so you would not be unreasonable in ensuring this is the case.

So I would check out the current legislation on restrictions so you are stating facts and not emotions when discussing this with your employer. You cannot be perceived to be stamping your feet and wailing 'but I don't want to!' Insist on seeing the risk assessment on what they are proposing, and take all reasonable steps to protect yourself and others (don't car share, wear a mask, socially distance in these meetings), Don't be afraid to call others out who appear to be flouting the rules.

As ever, it's so much easier for people to turn on each other, other workers, than management, politicians, people with power. Why attack someone for their health concerns? If you think it's unfair that you had to work face to face all through the pandemic, take it up with your employer, join your union - don't take it out on other workers.

That's divide and rule, and it's what keeps the rich rich!