To say no to going back to office until I've had vaccine & restrictions lifted?

[Willow79]

I live in Scotland and have been wfh for a year. I'm late 20s and asthmatic. Basically I wouldnt feel safe going back to physical work until I've at least had the vaccine. I know I'm young but I have friends with long covid and the prospect really scares me.

Anyway over the last 2 weeks my boss has been asking colleagues to meet our clients in physical meetings again. They travel there together by car and spend time with multiple teams of people.

Today was the first time the boss suggested I do this soon and another client also put pressure on me for the first time saying they want to meet soon as things go back to 'normal'.

AIBU to not want to do this seeing as the rule is a phased return to work in June?

@RaspberryCoulis it's been in the legislation quite a while now the legislation hasn't defined what is classified as essential business but EHO covid teams go off of guidance and what cannot be done from home and essential services such as legal etc.
Offices have been investigated by EH covid teams and the HSE the outcome depends on what is found. For some it's reduce to only core staff, others it's reduce office days some it's closure of the office as deemed not essential (DH is an EHO doing covid response)

In the OPs case there are several red flags that EHO would raise the biggest being why are they car sharing followed by why are they having f2f meetings if this isn't essential and can be done alternatively.

@confusedfriday

Makes me feel so... “disposable”, posts like yours. So many people, even those who are vulnerable, worked from the start, face to face, every day during pandemic. And some people think they are so much better than those others, and have to be accommodated indefinitely no matter what.

Not at all! Your boss might treat you like you're disposable, but that has nothing to do with decisions other workers make. It suits bosses and government very nicely to have everyone sniping at each other. I'm massively grateful for everyone who has had to work at the front line, but that is completely separate to my own decisions.

OP, I think wanting to say home is understandable, given that the government and media have been working together to try to terrify everyone in to staying at home for the past year. It also doesn’t matter how many of us have been working out of the house, each individual employer has a responsibility to keep their employees as safe as reasonable practicable. For teaching (my job) working from home is so ineffective that it isn’t practicable to have everyone teaching from home except in dire circumstances (eg jan and most of feb this year). Or job roles (eg an A&E nurse) were impossible to do from home in even dire circumstances so they had to work throughout. Similarly, if your employer has a reasonable belief that face to face meeting are significantly more effective then they can argue that this specific part of your job cannot be done from home.

Firstly, I think you should speak to your employer about mitigation measures at client meetings. Driving yourself, everyone in masks, social distancing and windows open all seem reasonably easy to implement.

Secondly, speak to your GP. They will either be able to reassure you that you are low risk or be able to put you on the priority list for a vaccine.

@Mayra1367

Many people have had to work throughout the pandemic with only token risk assessments. Time for everyone to get back to their office unless you have a severe medical exemption .

That doesn't mean that the rest of the population should have to have such little attention paid to their health and safety because other employers have gotten away with being so crap.

@Notagain20
Only I could see numerous threads here making teachers feel like scum due to their genuine health concerns? There are unions too but you remember what most of people here think about that lol
I’m afraid it’s all about entitlement. Way too many people happy for their children to go to school so it’d be easier to WFH, and I completely understand. But they are also fighting for the right to stay home for what it seems indefinitely and that’s just too cheeky I’m afraid. Apart from genuine concerns, OP is not on the shielding list, she’s also not eligible for a vaccine yet, so it just be that medical professionals don’t share her concerns.
I would meet my employer midway. I’d express my concern about car sharing and inquire about safety measures as distancing etc. But refusing to do the work? No.

@Notagain20

As ever, it's so much easier for people to turn on each other, other workers, than management, politicians, people with power. Why attack someone for their health concerns? If you think it's unfair that you had to work face to face all through the pandemic, take it up with your employer, join your union - don't take it out on other workers.

That's divide and rule, and it's what keeps the rich rich!

This entirely!

All those with steroid dependant asthma at my workplace have been vaccinated.

May I assume op that if you do not feel you can return to work that neither will you be meeting with up to 6 friends outside, having your hair done next week or going shopping or visiting a beer garden and that you would refuse to have a UK break in a holiday cottage. Presumably you haven't been to the supermarket or homebase since January either.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. I don’t have asthma but would not be happy to car share. If government guidance is on your side with that then you can reasonably ask your employer to revisit their risk assessment.

@BusyLizzie61
Can I ask a genuine question? So if COVID is such a threat for people like OP (and I understand the fear, we are in pandemic), what about other numerous infections? We don’t have a vaccine from everything and the flu vaccine is not always readily available or not always effective anyway. So how did people like this survive before pandemic?

Presumably if OP and all other people in their 20s are so low risk they should have been allowed to carry on doing whatever they liked during the past year regardless? 🤔

Funny now isn't it, now they have switched to being the ones at higher risk that apparently it doesn't matter and everything should just get back to normal.

And little attention? OP has been working from home for a YEAR. And she’s not even CEV.

At what point do you think you will go back? You will not be vaccinated in Scotland at your age by June. I’m late 40s, have worked in school with a class throughout and I am nowhere near being called yet. If your asthma did not classify you as cev it will be a really long time yet until you’re called. Is one vaccine going to be enough or will you decide you need to have had two vaccines? In which case that could be beyond September. You need to seriously think about the risk level and make measured decisions. Don’t car share to see your client. That is an unnecessary risk but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be going back to work.

I'm not CEV at all, and early 30s. My organisation have been working at home since March 2020 and there are no plans to go back until June at the earliest. And even then still taking peoples concerns into account.

Shock horror, some employers are good!

It is very scary going back to work after months of being told it was dangerous. I’m a teacher and it was dreadful being told on Mumsnet that my fears were ridiculous and that I was lazy because I didn’t want to return to school in March. I still feel very anxious as I know it isn’t really Covid safe in schools, which is presumably how you feel about your office. The thing is, unless you are able to support yourself without an income (colleagues of mine left as they weren’t happy), eventually you’ll have to do what your employers want or find another job.

So what can you do? Ask to see the risk assessments. Query the risk assessments. Open windows. Sanitise hands. Wear masks. Don’t spend time in whatever counts as communal areas now. Eat lunch outside or in your car. Make your own adjustments if you don’t think your employer has covered everything. I wouldn’t car share, for example, and they are unlikely to push it if you query it. Good luck and I hope you get called for vaccination soon.

It isn't 'going back to work'- OP has been working throughout.

Clearly a lot of bitterness from those who imagine WFH isn't working at all.

I've worked the whole way through as an asthmatic.
If your asthma is that severe then your GP would have called you by now.
I know lots of people that have had covid, including asthmatics. Long Covid is very rare.
Sorry but you just need to go back to work. I completely understand anxiety around it as you've been able to shield but you would have had a letter or the vaccine if you needed it.

I'm surprised that being asthmatic that you haven't been vaccinated as a few of our school staff have asthma and have been vaccinated in Scotland.

You'd probably be better getting proper work related advice and fill in the form on NHS Scotland to see if you have been missed.

As much I want to go back to the office (it's still closed because we're following government advice so not an option yet), it feels like we've stuck it out for this long and all managed to do our jobs just fine from home that it doesn't seem worth the risk for the sake of waiting a few weeks until having had at least the first vaccine. play the asthma card, I'm not buying the crap about it not making you higher risk as every cold I get affects my chest.

Never mind the asthma- you shouldn’t be returning to work unless it is essential- that is the rule.
Regarding the asthma, perhaps you could contact your GP. I know someone (although older than you- 40s) who has asthma, it is not severe and she has never been hospitalised. She had her vaccine weeks ago. There has been some controversy around who qualifies so perhaps it’s worth checking this.
You are young and if your asthma is mild, the risk is probably minimal.

@confusedfriday

And little attention? OP has been working from home for a YEAR. And she’s not even CEV.

Exactly, she has been WORKING from home. I wonder if people who don't work at home think working at home means watching TV and sunbathing all day? That would account for the bitterness maybe. Everyone I know who's been working at home has been of being tied to their screens and in meetings all day.

Take it up with your union, your boss, your MP if you think it's unfair. Fight to improve your working conditions, not to reduce everyone else's!

I think as things start to open up and more people are vaccinated, clients and customers will expect businesses to return to a more normal service rather than just coping or making do during an emergency situation. Some businesses have not adapted well at all and continued poor service using Covid as an excuse will not be tolerated as things open up. Employers will be under pressure if competitors are willing to resume normal service and they are not.

I’m in Scotland. I have been working from home for a year. I cannot WAIT to go back to the office (I think we will have some kind of blended home/office working model). Working from home is so isolating and I’ve found it very stressful. However, my employer is not seriously looking at it until towards the end of the year. Apparently they don’t want to be in a position where they bring people back, and we end up back in lockdown in the winter. Or something.

I don’t know, I think I needed the routine of getting up and going to the office every day. I have two kids and have had to home educate them when the schools closed as well as do my own job (a large, stressful and intense job). My mental health took a battering. I didn’t have time to run or eat well etc - it was just parenting and working and not really thinking about anything else.

I’ve never recovered from that. I am depressed and insular and overweight. Whilst I acknowledge that we have been so lucky in the grand scheme of things (we haven’t lost anyone and our jobs have been unaffected) I do feel that the toll this has taken on me (and my husband) has been huge. We need to start recovering too.

NHS England has a very odd view of asthma and vaccines, not sure about Scotland. But provided you haven't been on additional steroid treatment or hospitalised in the last 3 month NHS England doesn't see asthma as a vulnerable group.

I have severe asthma and am on drugs that under the asthmaUK guideles should have seen me shielding. I have never had a letter and when I spoke to my gp I was told the above. I won't get the vaccine til my area gets to my age group...they are no where near it yet and still doing the over 60's.

I have worked all the way through. So honestly I think you are being precious and you need to get on with life.

If your firm has requested that you go back to the office then you should. Or else get a sick note.

I also think that mentally people need to get out more and see that quite a lot of other people are actually going to work, getting on public transport and getting on with their lives.