To say no to going back to office until I've had vaccine & restrictions lifted?

[Willow79]

I live in Scotland and have been wfh for a year. I'm late 20s and asthmatic. Basically I wouldnt feel safe going back to physical work until I've at least had the vaccine. I know I'm young but I have friends with long covid and the prospect really scares me.

Anyway over the last 2 weeks my boss has been asking colleagues to meet our clients in physical meetings again. They travel there together by car and spend time with multiple teams of people.

Today was the first time the boss suggested I do this soon and another client also put pressure on me for the first time saying they want to meet soon as things go back to 'normal'.

AIBU to not want to do this seeing as the rule is a phased return to work in June?

jabe = jab
Obviously I haven't had my morning coffee yet

Yanbu.
There are too many dodgy managers around to whom people are collateral damage. They need to wait until more people have been vaccinated.

YANBU your employer should be following the guidance in Scotland. It doesn't matter what is happening in other UK countries, it is a balance of reducing social contacts indoors and Scotland has choosen to open things in a slightly different order/dates. Neither are right or wrong just different.

The posters who think because they are back, or have always been, at work so therefore you should too aren't seeing the bigger picture. If as many people continue to stay at home as possible unless essential, it keeps public transport numbers down and continues to surpress the virus in communities helping them to be safer.

As we have begun to realise the occasional face to face with clients is really important for the relationship. And clients can remove their business to work with suppliers/consultants that suit their style.

So if your boss is asking you to go to work, the best thing to do is work out the safest way to get to those meetings: you driving alone, ensuring social distancing at the meeting, masks if not inappropriate, windows open, everyone taking a LFT beforehand etc etc . While we still have a pretty much blanket ban of us working in our offices, these are the measures we have in place for f2f meetings now.

It is time for everyone to start thinking of solutions. Many employers have been patient, losing money and productivity, and it's now time for employees to start giving back in the quid pro quo.

Also in Scotland. Legislation is still ‘if you can’.
If your employer decides you can’t , and has mitigation in place, then you can go down the route of fighting that, but you may find yourself out of a job.
As to the car sharing. Just take your own.
Employers are trying to survive, and in Scotland it is incredibly hard right now due to lack of economic understanding by Scotgov.

YANBU Car sharing is close proximity and it sounds like there's a culture of 'let's get back to normal now'. Are they wearing masks in the car? Will the meetings involve masks and social distancing?
Having asthma and then getting Covid on top of that is a major concern. You could try putting your concerns to HR about car sharing and suggesting ways to mitigate the risks for face to face meetings. If the stress of this makes your asthma worse, is it worth speaking to your doctor?

If I was an unvaccinated asthmatic, I'd be very uncomfortable about travelling in a car with someone else, or about attending meetings indoors unless the rooms were well-ventilated and it was possible to maintain a decent distance.

My employer is enforcing a maximum number of 6 for meetings and the smaller meeting rooms can't be used for more than 2 people, to ensure there's room for social distancing. The number of workstations in all offices has been reduced by 50% for the same reason. This is in England though, where rules are different.

Can you get yourself vaccinated any time soon? Where I live, they're happy to vaccinate people with asthma ahead of the rest of their age group.

I think your employer is bang out of order if they're expecting you to do any different, tbh. I'd be speaking to my union if I were in your shoes.

OP you will always get unhelpful people posting about teachers, supermarket workers etc.

The point is that the guidance is work from home if you can (in England until June). I don't know what the equivalent date in Scotland is, but if you can work from home, you should. I don't think it's unreasonable to start attending the odd meeting with clients though - as long as they can be socially distanced - can they take place outside (yes I know you are Scotland but it's April and it's getting warmer).

I wouldn't car-share, that is a step too far, in England driving instructors only go back on Monday (and my son's instructor has been vaccinated).

I'd be inclined to say to boss yes to outside meeting, no to car sharing and see where that gets you.

And if you are not in a union, join one this weekend. Anyone can join a union and it is very helpful for this sort of scenario.

Everyone is just enjoying telling the OP she has to go back to the office. But the reality is much more nuanced. Both from a legal and an HR perspective, employers are being recommended to negotiate with their employees in a reasonable manner to take into account their personal concerns and balance those against the requirements of the job. Certainly, employers need to be fully aware of all the consequences of forcing employees back to the office who have been able to work effectively from home and who imminently will be vaccinated. The fact that others cannot do their jobs at home is utterly irrelevant. Ultimately it will come down to how valued an employee is.

It’s not reasonable to force you to car-share. Why can’t you travel in your own car?

Not sure why you haven’t had a vaccine yet if your asthma is problematic? My son in his twenties has had his first vaccine as he’s asthmatic. He doesn’t have particularly bad asthma. Never been hospitalised, but is on a regular preventative inhaler. If you haven’t been picked out for a vaccine, it would seem your asthma is controlled and you’re not deemed as clinically vulnerable.

Really do not think you are being unreasonable , given current Scottish guidance. And you are working - just not face to face!

I think you need to put the onus back on your employer to show how any face to face meetings/ car sharing are (I) necessary and (ii) can be covid safe. Lots of people have had to go to work in person but employers have a duty to take steps to protect health and safety of their staff. That's why hairdressers are minimising clients and schools are working with all the windows open. I really can't see how sharing a car is either needed or safe.

Really, you actually know ppl with long covid? Its pretty rare.

Not sure why you haven’t had a vaccine yet if your asthma is problematic?

I know someone who is 'unregistered' asthmatic. Hasn't been treated for it in ~30 years. Still gets wheezing & symptoms, just shrugs, manages at home with no treatment. LIterally locked selves up in spring 2020, so very sure they were ultra high risk due to the asthma.

Not ultra high risk enough to get any treatment, though.
I am getting impression there are a lot of asthmatics like that, especially from MNer comments. They made their own risk assessment & no one else is allowed to point out the irrationality.

You need to speak to your employer and ask what COVID secure measures will be in place when you do return to the office. In a shared office or meeting room have the windows open (honestly there’s been days I’ve been absolutely freezing sat at my desk) Make sure desks are 2M apart and no face to face working - we have people facing a wall all day. We also have to wear masks at all times unless having a drink or eating lunch at our desks. Hand sanitiser on every desk, use after touching door handles, shared printers etc.

Honestly OP this time last year I was terrified going in to work but it was either that or take unpaid leave. You do get used to it and your anxiety levels come down the more you go in to work. We did ten months of this before being offered the vaccine (NHS)

Unfortunately in your situation I think you’re just going to have to go in and do your job in person.

Just quit then. As an employer I'd be fed up with such nonsense and just request that employees fulfill their duties or resign.
Who is 'forcing' you to car share? How are you being forced? Drive yourself there.

YANBU.

Though travelling alone and meeting outdoors would probably be reasonable as an alternative. Offer that perhaps?

Unless you are on the shielding list you should be back at work. Shielding in Scotland ends 26th April so even most critically vulnerable will be at work then.

Lots of angry, uninformed posters on this thread! YANBU. Wanting to take precautions because of a pandemic isn't 'nonsense' FFS. If your employer is flouting the Scottish rules, then report them.

I am on the shielding list have been for a year have severe Asthma, use drugs and inhalers to control it. I have been hospitalised several times and last year was told if I caught Covid my chances of recovery were vere slim. I shall be returning to work on 26th of April so should you.

I’ve been going to the office the whole way through Covid. I’m NHS admin and had no choice. But I LOVED going to work when so many people were WFH. As long as the correct precautions are being taken I think YABU.

I love how it's completely fine for posters to be ageist towards people in their 20s and generalise that they're the worst for being lazy etc etc... yet any ageism in the opposite direction is pulled up immediately.

If it's possible for someone's job to still be done from home I don't see how it's unreasonable to still want to work from home, until we're further along and everyone has had the chance to be vaccinated. Some people have always done the kind of jobs that can be done from home- lots of office based jobs can be done from home and lots of employers have now figured this out. There seems to be quite a lot of bitterness from some people whose job means they can't work from home- to those of you that have told the OP she has the option to resign, you could always leave your job and find a WFH job too if you think that's so much more privileged?

OP I get your concerns. I'd actually love to be in our office immediately but I'm not surprised if others feel differently after the past year and the many effects it has had on people in different ways. I'm lucky- I have an excellent employer who have put our well-being first throughout the pandemic. We're not going to be back in the office until June and even then we're never going back to a 5 day office week. They have also said that no one is going to be forced to return until they feel safe- I imagine that once everyone has had a chance to be vaccinated they are expecting that people will feel a lot safer.

I don't know why employers treating employees decently should be seen as a luxury and 'tough shit' basically for those who don't have that.

The guidance is 'if you can.'

But the employer makes that distinction, not the employee.

If your employer feels that business relationships are suffering, and that a phased return ahead of June is the best course of action, and have made their business as covid-secure as possible, then you need to comply or leave.

If you educate yourself about the risks, I think you'll feel much better about it.

Makes me feel so... “disposable”, posts like yours. So many people, even those who are vulnerable, worked from the start, face to face, every day during pandemic. And some people think they are so much better than those others, and have to be accommodated indefinitely no matter what.