AIBU - England couldn’t care less about Northern Ireland

[ThisThatTheOther]

Northern Ireland has seen a return to violence , petrol bombs etc every night for a week now. It’s dominated the headlines here in Ireland. People are worried as peace up north is so fragile. Listening to the radio yesterday an old advisor of Tony Blair was on to discuss. The radio host read out the top 8 listed stories on all main English sites and the violence of Northern Ireland didn’t even feature. It’s the top headline again in all major Irish publications this morning but not in English publications.

@PhoenixandtheRug

PADH, there was a UDA funeral that broke covid rules. Sammy Wilson was reported several times breaking the rules. All this nonsense about a funeral is to deflect from the DUP being responsible for the NiP. The same DUP who regularly meets with the LCC which is full of drug dealing scumbags from the UVF and UDA, and who we all know handle and run the DUP.

Yes I agree. I have no love for the DUP either. They're all a bunch of hypocrites fueling fires that are burning our country to the ground. I was explaining how the funeral was not small beer in terms of NI politics and cross community tempers for those minimising it's importance.

If you look at my previous posts you'll see I'm just as hard and unforgiving on loyalism.

@PhoenixandtheRug - I will believe it when the vote comes in and not before. NI is a place where people used to be sufficiently engaged in these matters that they painted the kerbstones. Historically in terms of conflict it normally reverts to something more extreme, as is prefigured by rioting idiots stirred up by paramilitary gangs on behalf of their political masters.

However, I would be delighted if the Alliance overtook Sinn Fein. It is depressing to see how even more “moderate” parties were squeezed after the GFA: you would have thought the opposite would happen.

Hey, remember when Teresa May negotiated a Brexit deal that avoided all this, but BJ stabbed her in the back and threw it in the bin, just so he could be PM? Teresa May’s Brexit deal didn’t destablise Ireland and would have saved Britain so much money re border checks compared to the nonsense BJ agreed to.

Anyway. Does England care about NI? I think:

• the English press don’t like reporting on it because it is v v hard to work out what’s going on, they have to visit the centre of an overseas riot to get any decent info, and then, whatever they print, they get yelled at by angry violent ppl.
• the British government do NOT want to talk about NI at the mo because it draws attention to their total negligence re how Brexit was going to destabilise NI and the Good Friday Agreement.
• the English people DO care about NI and really don’t want the violence to kick off again, but the historical anger/situation seems very confusing and repetitive, and we have zero power to solve it, so we are not sure what we’re supposed to do about it.

(To me it’s always seemed inevitable that one day NI will unite with the rest of Ireland - it just makes sense re the history, culture and geography - but people seem to get v worked up about that 🤷‍♀️ and at the end of the day that’s a decision for the people of NI. Hopefully they’ll one day vote to unite with Ireland and get back in the EU with all the benefits and opportunities that entails.

Well a lot of what I have read is bullshit on this thread.

What you are seeing is by a minority of the population. Majority are not looking for conflict or give a shit about your religion or ‘community’, & these days it isn’t as divided as it once was. I went to a catholic maintained school (even though I wasn’t catholic and considered from a protestant community) as did half at the school, and this was more than 16 years ago.

Btw not every area votes and elects Sinn Fein or DUP in NI, there are quite a few ‘neutral’ areas.

Majority of my close friends are from different backgrounds than me, none of that matters to us. I reside in Northern Ireland, and I am atheist and don’t see myself as part of any specific community. So please stop judging us as an entire country based on these lowlifes actions, we want a peaceful life for our family and friends.

I worry what impact this will have on my DC futures, whom aren’t brought up in a ‘community’, nor are religious, and go to an integrated school to avoid bias.

I was reading about this morning on the BBC

Can anyone recommend good podcasts so I can inform myself better? I listen to the BBC ulster sometimes - Stephen Nolan, but see that a number of posters believe coverage is not very good on bbc or is that more at UK level? Thanks

@Thewiseoneincognito

Forgive my ignorance but why is this happening in 2021?

Why has Irish society not been able to move on and why on Earth are young people getting caught up in this? Anyone under the age of 30 is clearly continuing the hate perpetuated by their parents.

How does this stop?

I agree. I cannot understand why people turn to rioting. It never solves anything.

I find the language some people use about NI very telling. “Hand it back to Ireland” “does Ireland want to own NI?”

NI isn’t property or a child of separated parents. It’s not a case of the union “handing NI back”. NI is a member of the union, not a chattel. If NI is to leave the union it will be as a result of a vote by the people of NI, or by the dissolution of the union altogether. It won’t be because England or any other member has decided they don’t want NI there anymore. If NI leave the union they may or may not (more than likely they will) become part of Ireland through reunification. They will not be owned by Ireland, but be part of it. Just like Cork or Donegal aren’t owned by Ireland, but form part of it.

with everything that's been written on this thread plus the articles and previous threads kindly linked by PP I honestly can't believe you would ask that @sotiredofthislonelylife
Have you read the thread?
Honestly, this is so depressing

NI has just got around to dealing with abortion and that had to be pretty much forced on them to do. Don’t tell me it’s full of secretly liberal people, they must be such a minority as to make no difference. What has been the actual voting pattern in NI for the last 25 years? That’s what actually happened, and it looks pretty divided to me.

I can’t tell you the number of people who would solemnly talk of voting in ways that were not actually sectarian but the overall effect was exactly that.

“Ian Paisley is a good MP” vs “Ian Paisley spent years whipping up division”. The cognitive dissonance was amazing

@Uniquerandomer

Well a lot of what I have read is bullshit on this thread.

What you are seeing is by a minority of the population. Majority are not looking for conflict or give a shit about your religion or ‘community’, & these days it isn’t as divided as it once was. I went to a catholic maintained school (even though I wasn’t catholic and considered from a protestant community) as did half at the school, and this was more than 16 years ago.

Btw not every area votes and elects Sinn Fein or DUP in NI, there are quite a few ‘neutral’ areas.

Majority of my close friends are from different backgrounds than me, none of that matters to us. I reside in Northern Ireland, and I am atheist and don’t see myself as part of any specific community. So please stop judging us as an entire country based on these lowlifes actions, we want a peaceful life for our family and friends.

I worry what impact this will have on my DC futures, whom aren’t brought up in a ‘community’, nor are religious, and go to an integrated school to avoid bias.

I'm exactly the same, will only consider integrated education, vote Alliance etc. But loads of people are out there voting DUP and SF, I don't get it? I can't align that fact with what literally everyone in my life claims to stand for. Why aren't loads of us out voting for the middle ground parties in our droves every election time? My DH and my sister just don't vote at all, they say it won't make a difference. It makes me want to cry, if all the people refusing to vote would shift their arses on election day maybe we could have some kind of change in this country. But not that many of us seem to care enough.

Why has Irish society not been able to move on and why on Earth are young people getting caught up in this? Anyone under the age of 30 is clearly continuing the hate perpetuated by their parents.
Those causing trouble rioting identify as British not Irish they are loyalists loyal to the Queen.
The people who identify Irish are happy with the sea border and hopeful to be reunited.
I'm sure they're not happy with death threats for being Catholic.

@UhtredRagnarson

I find the language some people use about NI very telling. “Hand it back to Ireland” “does Ireland want to own NI?”

NI isn’t property or a child of separated parents. It’s not a case of the union “handing NI back”. NI is a member of the union, not a chattel. If NI is to leave the union it will be as a result of a vote by the people of NI, or by the dissolution of the union altogether. It won’t be because England or any other member has decided they don’t want NI there anymore. If NI leave the union they may or may not (more than likely they will) become part of Ireland through reunification. They will not be owned by Ireland, but be part of it. Just like Cork or Donegal aren’t owned by Ireland, but form part of it.

The population of a country are governed by that country and must abide by the laws of that country. So of course England, Scotland, Wales and NI ‘belong’ to the UK. Just as Munster, Leinster and Connaught ‘belong’ to the Republic.

It’s clear that the population of the Republic care far more about the welfare of those in NI than the Scottish, the Welsh and the English do. That’s why reunification would make sense.

The sooner the better!

Yanbu OP, sadly.
There's even been polling showing voters in Britain would be willing to see a return to violence in NI for Brexit. Sometimes I feel really ashamed of what my country has become.

The population of a country are governed by that country and must abide by the laws of that country. So of course England, Scotland, Wales and NI ‘belong’ to the UK. Just as Munster, Leinster and Connaught ‘belong’ to the Republic

Belong to it, as one would belong to a choir- they form part of it and are bound by the rules of it. But aren’t owned by it.

As a child I had no idea what side these soldiers were on, or where they were from, but I remember them being so friendly and lovely to the children.

My most memorable encounter with British soldiers as a small child was having a soldier point his gun at me and keep it trained on me for half an hour, as two more pointed theirs at my mum and teenage sister.

I was scared so my sister fibbed and told me they didn't really have any bullets in the guns so it was nothing to worry about.

Yeah, friendly and lovely sums it up

There was a calling to catch a Catholic to murder on the Shankill Road.
Imagine the fear in Catholic parents around the area their DC can no longer travel it'll be some mothers son.
I feel for the people in the area who don't want any part in it.
Carers can't get into the areas to help clients nor public services.

Of course as an adult, I know that terrible things happened, but as a child it was really so exciting and interesting.

Jesus, this makes me want to vomit

A youth leader hit the nail on the head this morning on radio...those out rioting are a bunch of bored kids...bored with lockdown and facilities being closed..sadly a few numbskull adults have been seen encouraging them on....it is nothing more than a bunch of stupid disrespectful kids who should be took home by their lughole by their parents...the worst thing that can be done is give any media attention to it...people can say it was to do with a funeral or brexit...bollicks...i have friends both catholic and protestant and i have heard more protestants express disgust over last few days..

Much of the British press has a political agenda and isn’t representative of ‘English people’. I’m English and disgusted at the lack of coverage and concerned about events in NI.

.

Or presumably someone else already posted this.

@UhtredRagnarson

You said:
"NI isn’t property or a child of separated parents. It’s not a case of the union “handing NI back”. NI is a member of the union, not a chattel. If NI is to leave the union it will be as a result of a vote by the people of NI, or by the dissolution of the union altogether. It won’t be because England or any other member has decided they don’t want NI there anymore. If NI leave the union they may or may not (more than likely they will) become part of Ireland through reunification. They will not be owned by Ireland, but be part of it. Just like Cork or Donegal aren’t owned by Ireland, but form part of it."

That was interesting to read thank you.

I have a genuine question about it.
NI didn't form itself. It could be said that it originally belonged to Ireland and Northern Ireland was taken with a lot of coercion and pressure from England and Scotland, which then resulted in the Irish Civil war etc.

It could be argued in one train of thought that Northern Ireland was "taken" from Ireland, so that is why there is still the thought that it could be "given back" to Ireland.
I am not saying that it is right or wrong, I am just saying that it is a train of thought that exists.

Believe me I know it is alot more nuanced and in depth than that. But I know that thought exists. What are your thoughts on that?

@DressingGownofDoom

They vote out of fear that the ‘other side’ will get the majority, everyone knows both main parties are morons, but it is driven by fear.

For MP’s my district seems to be the only area in NI for years that elects Independant or Alliance and not one of the main parties. But work colleagues have called my area odd in the past because of this...

@AbsentmindedWoman

Of course as an adult, I know that terrible things happened, but as a child it was really so exciting and interesting.

Jesus, this makes me want to vomit

Why exactly? I lived there and that was my experience. Are you saying a child can't see the innocence around them. Children probably see more clearly than adults. As a child I rememeber seeing IRA members and British Army members as human beings.

But if you want to, vomit on yourself.

@Kendodd

Yanbu OP, sadly. There's even been polling showing voters in Britain would be willing to see a return to violence in NI for Brexit. Sometimes I feel really ashamed of what my country has become.

What about the 44.2% of People in NI who voted for Brexit?