To think it’s about time all women were Ms or Mrs following this plane error

[AtlasPine]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/09/tui-plane-serious-incident-every-miss-on-board-child-weight-birmingham-majorca

The confusion caused here could have had dire consequences.

Isn’t it about time we dropped the title ‘Miss’ to differentiate between adult women and girls?

@tendofether

Ps exh is dr, what do they do then???

What's the betting they use a male average weight?

A lot of airlines will almost certainly do this! When I travel through work we book through a designated agent, and there are a surprising number of airlines which don't accept "Dr" as a title when it's passed through to their system, and automatically issue boarding passes with "Mr" as default.

They'd like to weigh passengers but it would be incredibly unpopular, because even though everyone with eyes can see who is overweight, apparently it is unfair, humiliating etc etc for a stranger that you will probably never see again to know what number pops up on a scale when you stand on it.

But I agree that it is stupid that a bag can be too heavy, but it is OK to take something out of that bag and put it in your pocket and take it on the plane anyway.

@Nitgel

That's everything to do with the weight entry error and nothing to do with ms/miss. What a crazy system to start with.

Exactly!

In Germany you can choose between Herr and Frau; there are no other options these days. As a result, when I'm translating German forms etc. into English, I have to just translate them as "Mr" and "Ms" so as not to bugger up the system.

In the other direction, when an English-German translator is confronted by "Miss/Mrs/Ms/Mr" on a form, they have to decide whether to translate it as "Frau/Frau/Frau/Herr" or possibly to revert to "Frl" for "Miss" - even though the word "Fräulein" is no longer used at all in this context - in case the distinction is important, like this.

The trouble is that even if you are a good translator and point out that you've made it "Frau/Frau/Frau/Herr" and it might bugger up the system, customers often don't listen.

I am Miss. I was Mrs Y, but now I'm divorced I'm Miss X again and will remain so, even if I ever remarried. It's up to me which title I use. The weight entry system is flawed.

I agree with a pp - get rid of titles!! They serve no purpose.

It’s about time there were government safety standards for airline software with appropriate penalties. This wasn’t just a code error, it’s a design error that has made it through review and testing.

Buck stops with the company operating the aircraft.

To me "Ms" always seems to indicate the person using it is insecure, or at least they they believe there is something inferior with one or other of the traditional titles.

I'm a Mrs , as it happens, and previously was a Miss. Have never been a Ms.

However, I don't think it's insecurity at all - I think it's because it's no-one else's damned business whether any particular woman is married or not.

Women should be free to call themselves by whatever designation they wish, and airlines need to find other ways of determining weigh averages.

Will these weight calculations be affected by TW (who are men) pushing up the average weight unexpectedly? Or is there just an average weight for adults which covers both sexes?

How are average weights determined? People of both sexes are heavier (on average) now than they were even 50 years ago - how often are they updated? I can see that they have to have approximations, and that fuel is so incredibly expensive (and volatile) that they won't want to use more than necessary, but it must necessarily be a ballpark calculation, because you can't ask people their weight on booking..

One random country has a different title for children?
Been a while since I booked a flight, but don't you have to enter date of birth?

@stuckinarutatwork

Wow. The standard weights use seem a bit out anyway. It doesn't seem very reliable.

Average adult weight 69kg? Really?? That's only just over 10.5 stone. For a nation with a large percentage of the population that's overweight, I very much doubt that's a good guess.

Mind you, imagine getting everyone to step on the scales at check in (I've had to do this when flying in small aircraft overseas - we even had to sit in certain seats according to our size to balance the load!).

Lol. We need to talk about facts, not ideals: a quick Google indicates 28% of the U.K. population are obese, 36.2% overweight. The younger generations are taller than ever. Even when including children 11 plus as adults, I cannot imagine there are enough children per flight to lower the averages and as children are getting taller, they are also pushing up this average figure.

@EvilPea

I’m a Miss it really pisses me off when there isn’t that option on forms. It’s my title. It’s who I am, I don’t want that taken away.

Agree.

There's like 10 different ways that issue could have been avoided that don't involve further reducing women's choice.

It’s one of those choices that weren’t really designed for the women’s benefit though.

IMO weighing passengers and baggage together would remove the embarrassment factor. If this contributes to the flight safety, surely no-one has the right to complain?

Really interesting story in its way. Not sure what they're going to do about Mx which I have occasionally contemplated using. Surely a weight pad at check in which sends the result to the system with nobody seeing the number could work.

@Lazierdays

I wish we could just have one title for women and one for men. I hate how women are always defined in relation to their Dad (Miss Smith) their husband (Mrs Brown) or their divorce (Ms Brown or Ms Smith). Seems archaic when the men are just Mr Jones their whole life.

Not “always”. Very easy to choose not to be. I’ve been Ms HardyandMe for 45 years - including the last 20ish of those in my marriage. It’s my name. Not my father’s. Mine.

I like being Miss. I've been Mrs, but don't like Ms as a title, so went back to Miss after my divorce. I think it's good that we have options.

Weigh all passengers before the flight to get a more accurate reading. Tickets should be charged on weight anyway in my opinion.

Yes, weigh everybody, and price the ticket accordingly.

More weight, more fuel, more environmental damage.

No I don't think this should be blamed on women's choice of title. The software was developed based on cultural assumptions that don't apply in all countries, it would make more sense to estimate weight based on date of birth.

I’ve been Ms my since I was about 14. I’m now 55. I’ve been single and married, never divorced. Always Ms. My three daughters have always been Ms since they were born. I’d be happy enough to use Mrs if it was a universal title for all adult women too.

To me "Ms" always seems to indicate the person using it is insecure, or at least they they believe there is something inferior with one or other of the traditional titles.

then, from what i read and hear, you'd be entirely wrong and it is women who don't want to be defined by their marital status. There's nothing inferior in Mrs except the way other people treat you (at work etc)

Someone fucked up some calculations, and then apparently nobody else checked thks. It's nothing to do with female titles being confusing. If anything, it's highlighted some serious flaws in the airline's operating procedures.

Also, if you actually read the article, it states the difference in thrust used was marginal and that the plane was still within the safe limits of thrust. So it's a bloody boring story about something "almost" happening but not actually happening that I suspect was printed on a slow news say.

@WildOrchids67

I like being Miss. I've been Mrs, but don't like Ms as a title, so went back to Miss after my divorce. I think it's good that we have options.

I like being Miss as well - I never liked Ms. Although, since I'm a teacher, I'm usually referred to as Mrs anyway! The thought process seems to be "she's a teacher therefore she's old, so she must be married"!

I got married a few years ago but everything is still in my maiden surname as I prefer to be 'Miss xxx' rather than 'Mrs xxx' - don't like his surname anyway. However, I guess this would confuse the airline system! It's the same as people like Joan Collins who are still referred to as 'Miss'.

The problem with using a date of birth is that UK mainly uses dd/mm/yyyy. The USA uses mm/dd/yyyy. Canada tends to use a bit of both. Chuck in the fact that the system was set up in a country where the first language is not English and problems arise.