To think there is too much pressure to formula feed?

[daffodilsandprimroses]

I’ve been considering making this post for a while but was worried about being flamed - I probably will be.

I am definitely not speaking to or about the women who made a choice to formula feed, either from the start or after trying breastfeeding and deciding it wasn’t for them.

I am talking about the women like me who really wanted to breastfeed and tried.

I found the midwives were very quick to leap to pushing formula once breastfeeding wasn’t working. When ds lost weight after birth rather than helping support me to feed him we were put on a feeding plan involving formula.

Why is there no support for breastfeeding?

YANBU I had no support at all and a stroppy midwife in hospital who told me that my boobs were too big and my nipples were too flat and therefore it would be too hard for me to breastfeed. I then agreed to use formula and was then told off for not bringing formula and bottles to the hospital with me (as I was planning to breastfeed).

While I'm guessing nursing bras and clothing must generate profit otherwise no one would manufacture them it's not the same league as formula. You don't see them in shops on display often and I've only rarely seen adverts (banner adverts no doubt influenced by my online searches) and it was something I had to go and seek out. There is also a reasonable second hand market for this sort of clothing.

What I have seen advertised a lot more are products to help with breastfeeding like pumps and bottles that are apparently more like breasts, most of which you aren't necessarily going to need. The cynic in me assumes it's a way of getting the brand in your head should you change to formula.

@sipsmith1
“ Randomly assigning some women to breastfeed and some to formula feed is unethical. ”
You didn’t read the trials properly then... the randomisation is done by randomly ENCOURAGING some women to breastfeed and others not, which has the effect of increasing breastfeeding rates in the encouraged group.

I always hear that stat blased around the place like it's evidence that there isn't enough 'support' for breastfeeding. I couldn't see it more differently.

I believe that the reason FF rates are higher is because the majority of women simply don't want to breastfeed. They all have their own exact interpretation of why that is, and don't need to explain it to anyone. Maybe it's for the sake of their careers, finances, mental health, other trauma which makes them feel uncomfortable 'exposing' themselves in public, childcare reasons, health reasons, etc. None of this is anyone else's business and no one should have to justify why they want to FF.

Secondly, in the UK we have access to every single tool that makes FF a breeze. Perfect prep machines, lots of different bottle designs, lots of different formulas which work for most babies, especially ones with allergies. Powdered formula for home, pre made formula for days out. Formula feeding is a bit of a faff in regards to bottle washing and sterilising but it is as quick and efficient as it's ever been. We also have access to homes with electricity and safe drinking water. So, ultimately, there's the choice that people in higher BF countries perhaps don't have.

The UK has so much breastfeeding support. There's an entire week dedicated to it. NHS run breastfeeding support groups. You can literally hire a lactation specialist to come to your home and help you. There's facebook groups galore on the matter. Breastfeeding support Instagrams, the works. Do all the countries with high BF rates have anywhere near the same amount of government implemented support? No.

The only difference, in my opinion, is societal. We are very isolated in the UK in the sense that we don't live with extended family members in close proximity. Most of us tend to branch out and leave home well before having a baby. Baby rearing is done by one or two parents, not multiple grannies, aunties, friends of the family, etc. So breastfeeding is probably a lot easier in those environments as you have a lot more time to rest. Here, you probably have to juggle other children and responsiblities on your own, which I would imagine makes it much harder to focus on establishing breastfeeding.

We aren't going to end up living with our extended families once again, so I can see our stats staying around the same level they are. It's obviously very sad if breastfeeding doesn't work out for those who really want to do it, but other than ensuring that every area receives the same level of support rather than lots in one area, and minimal in another, I don't think it's the fault of how much 'support' in place. Women just have more options now.

@FudgeSundae it wasn’t me interpreting the data, it was a group of highly qualified scientists that were reporting for World Health Association. Way to be patronising though.

ParadiseLaundry
I think only very basic pain medication though? My sil is a pharmacist and regularly has to tell people they can't take medications if breastfeeding and on the drink thing, isn't it very moderate amounts? Anyone I knew who breastfed would have had the very odd glass tops, personally that tells me not to drink at all, the same way i wouldn't have drank during pregnancy (and I know some people do and I'm not saying anything about them.) Honestly dont want to spread falsities though

@stayathomer you can take dihydracodeine and tramadol, both quite strong painkillers, when breastfeeding, and that's just off the top of my head. I believe pharmacists are usually ultra cautious when dispensing over the counter medicines but Drs are usually happier to prescribe things once they've checked.

Very little alcohol gets into your milk when drinking, for example for your breastmilk to be 0.5% alcohol (the same as apple juice or alcohol free beer) you would have had to have alReady have died from alcohol poisoning. Jack Newman has written extensively on it. Would I get drunk if I was bf a small baby? No, but I wouldn't if I was ff either. Drunk people aren't the best to be looking after babies regardless of how they're fed! But really it's absolutely not the same at all as drinking when you're pregnant.

@Twoobles. Your comment that the majority of women in this country use formula because they simply do not want to breastfeed, is basically arguing against the statistics. Over 80% of women in this country set out hoping/intending to breastfeed, but even just 6 weeks later, this percentage is drastically reduced and by six months only about 30% of women are breastfeeding (if I remember thst percentage correctly). So the question needs to be asked, why are women not able to achieve their breastfeeding goals in this country?

The reason you think it would be unethical is that you're already convinced that breastfeeding is miles better

It is infeasible and unethical to perform random assignment of breastfeeding, pretty much any study on the topic discusses this - no matter what fully informed consent you get pre-birth (which will always have a lot up in the air) the medical professionals cannot have any say in if she actually breastfeeds or forumla feeds post-birth and any attempt to do so would be unethical pressure that many are already talking about being unwanted. It isn't more wanted in a medical trial.

That's why the focus is most studies on is on breastfeeding support which has been shown to be a big help to those who wish to continue breastfeeding longer (even though some of those studies get ripped apart on MN for being for mothers who don't care enough to have to need support) and observational studies, with sibling studies
with 1+ being formula fed and 1+ being breastfed being highly valued.

Perhaps I should start judging BFing mums who then go on to wean their kids on processed crap.

There is already a lot of judgement around weaning, so I'm not sure more would benefit anyone.

More judgement on either side doesn't help anyone, whether it's a mother who formula feeds being told she didn't try enough/lazy and is harming her child with formula or a breastfeeding mother who gets told she's harming her child because others can't bond or she's doing for her own sexual gratification or her milk is obviously not going to be enough due to age/how she gave birth/how the baby is acting (and the mix feeding mother who can get both). All of those are pressure. Pretending one or the other doesn't happen is to ignore reality.

My older children are teenagers and yeah, I doubt they'd be much different if formula fed. I still think it's pretty fucked up that HCPs made up BS about my body that matched her agenda & tried to terrify me with SS and how much shitty comments I received breastfeeding, just as I found it ridiculous how much shite other mums got for formula feeding. The idea that the other side gets all the support and ease is just as much BS, as many have said, mothers get called inadequate no matter what we do & many of us struggle with too little access to support. That's a big part of the problem no matter how we choose to feed our infants.

@JenerationH you love saying that people are taking out of their arse and calling people stupid, it's really unpleasant.
But that aside, it has been shown that very small levels of supplementation alter a babies gut. Look it up, it's a fact.
Introducing something new to the gut alters it. Breastfed babies who have been supplemented have guts that closely resemble formula fed infants.
I'm not surprised you don't know this, I didn't know this until I had nearly finished feeding my second baby. Which is why I mentioned it, as it's helpful for people to know the facts so they can make the right choices. Whether it 'damages gut health' well again there is a wealth of opinion on that, but it definitely alters it.
With my first breastfed baby I gave a bottle of formula quite early just to see if he would take it, no other reason. I didnt think it mattered as long as he mostly got breast milk. I knew nothing about the gut or the delicate balance within it, or the PH levels etc and was encouraged to try it by family members.

I'm not claiming to know everything but I am not talking out of my arse or stupid, thanks for the insults though, it makes for a really unpleasant debate. I'm not linking to anything because the info is out there at the click of a button, you don't need to reach into my arse for it fortunately.

It depends on the interpretation of the word 'damage' but it is not optimal. It is a deviation from the biological norm which has developed in humans for millennia. But you are more concerned with arguing than understanding gut health so I can't be arsed to spend my time linking to articles that you can easily find yourself.

@Drunkenmonkey

It depends on the interpretation of the word 'damage' but it is not optimal. It is a deviation from the biological norm which has developed in humans for millennia. But you are more concerned with arguing than understanding gut health so I can't be arsed to spend my time linking to articles that you can easily find yourself.

I’d also be interested in studies showing formula milk is damaging as I’ve yet to see much evidence on this. I don’t think deviation from biological norm is necessarily damaging... cleaning one’s body regularly is not the biological norm but I don’t think my daily shower is damaging

And saying breastfeeding isnt free because it is time a woman could spend doing something paid. That is ridiculous.
With that logic taking a walk in the park isn't free, speaking to a friend isn't free, taking a shit isn't even free sorry but its the most ridiculous comment I've seen so far.

The word damaged here is rather emotionally loaded and unhelpful. Antibiotic use will also affect the gut but there will be times when the benefits of antibiotics will outweigh the risks to the gut.

This is exactly why I didn't want to use the word damage. There are a lot of things we do as humans that are suboptimal. There is evidence regarding gut flora alterations, tons of evidence, as I've studied it before. I've got my hands full at the moment and it's time consuming to read and evaluate studies. I will do it later if the debate it still going.

[quote Somethingsnappy]@Twoobles. Your comment that the majority of women in this country use formula because they simply do not want to breastfeed, is basically arguing against the statistics. Over 80% of women in this country set out hoping/intending to breastfeed, but even just 6 weeks later, this percentage is drastically reduced and by six months only about 30% of women are breastfeeding (if I remember thst percentage correctly). So the question needs to be asked, why are women not able to achieve their breastfeeding goals in this country?[/quote]
Well in my case with my first I “set out” to breastfeed... but no one had explained that it would involve cluster feeding about 20 hours a day, nor that it would make me constantly tearful and make sex impossible. I would not have set out to do this had I known the facts about how it would affect me... which goes back to the OP’s point about more facts. I don’t think some breastfeeding lobbyists help themselves by saying breastfeeding is easy and natural for everyone!

Calling it free is very simplistic. Calling BF on average cheaper than FF makes more sense although you'll still get the self-obsessed reply of "but breastfeeding was more expensive for meeeeee so therefore that's not true"

@JenerationH ever heard of paid mat leave? FFS.

It's just nit picking and serves no purpose in a debate. It just wastes people's time. Time you could spend reading and analysing the metaanalysis and refuting it one by one which is what you want me to do.