Fed up with everyone leaving London

[Arlington45]

My partner and I are both from London, both sets of parents are in fairly near areas to us. We have no intention of leaving London.

But so many people are. My son (6) keeps having to say goodbye to school friends. Is this going to mess him up, having no sense of security with friends sticking around? I hope at some point it will settle down but at the moment it feels like a mass exodus.

I don't feel pissed off with the people leaving, I get it. But I do feel fed up. AIBU?

The opposite. People know what racism is, they know to say racism when they see it and they know to not do it. However, at the same time you don't end up with as many terrified people waxing lyrical about critical race theory non-stop when you're trying to enjoy yourself.

@BeagleEagle those are your own words, I'm not twisting anything. You are saying that Londoners are unable to talk sensibly about race and that in Birmingham people know not to do racism. Maybe you don't mean it but that's what you said.

I totally agree BeagleEagle, and as much as I've seen of the NQ it's been very much based on Hoxton/Islington, and look where that got us Londoners.

I think a lot of Londoners discovered Birmingham and now enjoy metropolitan life without the eye watering expense. Unfortunately this means that house prices there are rising faster than anywhere else in the UK, not great news for us as we were planning to buy there next year.

@ThePlantsitter

The opposite. People know what racism is, they know to say racism when they see it and they know to not do it. However, at the same time you don't end up with as many terrified people waxing lyrical about critical race theory non-stop when you're trying to enjoy yourself.

@BeagleEagle those are your own words, I'm not twisting anything. You are saying that Londoners are unable to talk sensibly about race and that in Birmingham people know not to do racism. Maybe you don't mean it but that's what you said.

"you don't end up with as many terrified people waxing lyrical about critical race theory non-stop when you're trying to enjoy yourself."

See bolded. I'm talking about the odds not a generalisation to every single person ever. I'm sure that there are many Londoners capable of talking about race sensibly and many Brummies who are completely not. However, IME there's a much higher rate of naval gazers in the capital. No surprise considering that it's a magnet for people with money and University Degrees, who are generally the people more predisposed to that kind of thinking.

Whenever I have stayed with friends there the evening follows the same formula - either queue for half an hour for a restaurant, or if they've been able to book it, get crammed in.

Lived in London for many years, can't relate to what you have posted.

BeagleEagle

I have seen the place mentioned on here about the strange attitudes the locals have to things and a place to avoid living. I think it has got a little better in recent times.
I also know a couple of people who came from that area. Both say the same thing. That they escaped the area as soon as they could. Both describe how they love their family but felt like they didn’t belong in it because of the strange ideas their family have and their need to leave. None of their family has ever seen where they live as it is too far to travel even when they have offered to pick them up and drive them.

@Moomin12345

Thank the government for ever rising house prices.

Really? You blame the government? Care to explain or are you one of those people that blame the government for everything because you're still sulking that the Tories are in power?

@KarensChoppyBob

I totally agree BeagleEagle, and as much as I've seen of the NQ it's been very much based on Hoxton/Islington, and look where that got us Londoners.

Yeah! It used to be a haven for oddbods and subculturals. I loved it as a weird teenager.

@ipseity

Hs2 won't help.. We'll see how it goes, fingers crossed it doesn't turn into Manchester

@KatherineJaneway

Whenever I have stayed with friends there the evening follows the same formula - either queue for half an hour for a restaurant, or if they've been able to book it, get crammed in.

Lived in London for many years, can't relate to what you have posted.

I said to another poster, please let me know what I'm doing wrong and how I can do it better and I give you my word I'll give it a fair punt next time I'm in. I'm not hostile to enjoying London, if it truly is amazing then I'd love to experience that. I just never have.

This is making me laugh because the only time I've felt like a true outsider was visiting a friend who had relocated to the outskirts of Birmingham. We had a (very mediocre) pub lunch with (very bad) beer and a boyfriend of the friend's friend asked me where I was from. Canada, I said. "Well, at least you're the right colour", he replied, and slapped his friend on the back while they had a jolly laugh. Still makes me intensely uncomfortable thinking about it. I couldn't wait to leave.

As for leaving London, we've spent ages weighing up the pluses and minuses. I feel a little too old at 40 to start building up a network of friends again when we have a good community in the neck of woods of London I'm in - and I think an extra bedroom would just end up being a storage room for all our clutter. So I'm trying to live a more minimalist life. Less cleaning anyway when you have a small flat!

@Pigtailsandall

This is making me laugh because the only time I've felt like a true outsider was visiting a friend who had relocated to the outskirts of Birmingham. We had a (very mediocre) pub lunch with (very bad) beer and a boyfriend of the friend's friend asked me where I was from. Canada, I said. "Well, at least you're the right colour", he replied, and slapped his friend on the back while they had a jolly laugh. Still makes me intensely uncomfortable thinking about it. I couldn't wait to leave.

As for leaving London, we've spent ages weighing up the pluses and minuses. I feel a little too old at 40 to start building up a network of friends again when we have a good community in the neck of woods of London I'm in - and I think an extra bedroom would just end up being a storage room for all our clutter. So I'm trying to live a more minimalist life. Less cleaning anyway when you have a small flat!

Where? The outskirts have a lot of people who left the city because of white flight attitudes. That's why you're likely to experience prejudice there.

Ok @beagleeagle. If you want to call critical thinking skills 'naval gazing' we'll have to agree to disagree. It being socially ok to think about things is one of the reasons I stay living in London tbh. I never thought of Birmingham as a place where it wasn't but you're convincing me otherwise.

Money is a separate issue. I would never claim London doesn't have a financial equality problem but that has little to do with critical thinking/naval gazing.

I think this has always been a thing TBH. We lived in London as a child (Born there!) Many little friends moved away as I grew up.When I was 13 my parents had also had enough of the "Rat Race" and moved to Dorset.We live on the SC now and love it! I think its just how it is really.Your little boy will make new friends ,and this is good prep for life as many people come and go move country even!

@BeagleEagle no idea. It was some years back, my friend picked us up and drove us to hers and we later walked to the pub. Friendship has since died a natural death so no idea. But the fantastic thing about London is that you can be pretty much any kind of family and not feel ostracized (although idiots do exist everywhere). Eould not have felt comfortable relocating to Birmingham after that experience, and I have a lot of friends who are in mixed-race /same-sex relationships and who are staying in London purely because they feel more comfortable here than somewhere more homogenous

We moved from Zone 1, to Zone 2 to Zone 5. When we were in Zone 2 lots of our friends kept leaving London to buy a house in The Home Counties or emigrate or move back home abroad somewhere. In Zone 5, hardly anyone ever moves and DCs classes have been very constant as have our neighbours. Because people tend to have gardens they tend to extend their house rather than move. Lots of home offices being built, loft extensions, side extensions but not much moving away. They consider it before secondary school transfers but usually just end up tutoring crazily for grammar schools in Kent/Bexley etc... basically they stay put as it is easy access to work and Central London and lots of facilities and plenty of green spaces and good schools. So I think OP it depends on which part of London you are in. Outer London areas are more constant in my experience. Moreover, if you have family locally then you have more of an incentive to stay than many others. Covid is not just about working from home- many people have really struggled being separated from their families and where they grew up.

It has always been the issue when a child’s school is in a city. My DC has said goodbye to seven clsssmates in the last four years and is only in the 4th year of school. On the other hand my other DC has never had someone leave the class (to date).

Also the common pattern is for families to move away to somewhere more quiet and peaceful with little ones, and when their kids grow up they cant wait to move to London/other urban areas because theres nothing to do in their village as a teenager except sniff glue. Then they get jobs, meet someone, have kids and.. so the cycle's repeated. I just think it's pretty normal.

@ThePlantsitter

Ok *@beagleeagle*. If you want to call critical thinking skills 'naval gazing' we'll have to agree to disagree. It being socially ok to think about things is one of the reasons I stay living in London tbh. I never thought of Birmingham as a place where it wasn't but you're convincing me otherwise.

Money is a separate issue. I would never claim London doesn't have a financial equality problem but that has little to do with critical thinking/naval gazing.

But money isn't a separate issue. Those issues are completely tied together. A lot of those discussions are tied into higher-level education and being in more middle-class social settings. The 'discourse' and the 'theory' and the 'language' are mostly taught at undergraduate level, with some at A-Level. People who don't have access to that level of education and the social environment that affords are completely sensible and capable of talking about prejudice, race and class. Often with a lot of lived experience. People don't realise that very intense, fraught and unforgiving discussions about critical race theory are often exclusive and anxiety provoking, particularly if you don't have a humanities degree. You feel like you're about to trip up and get chewed out just because you don't know the accepted view. Yes it's perfectly achievable to learn about race theory without a University education, but I don't see why that is the "gold standard" of talking about race, when many disagree. Mostly IME people of colour and people from ethnic, cultural and religious minority backgrounds who feel like it doesn't fit their experiences.

If it is in any way helpful, OP, we love living in London and would rather chew our arms off than leave!

[quote Pigtailsandall]@BeagleEagle no idea. It was some years back, my friend picked us up and drove us to hers and we later walked to the pub. Friendship has since died a natural death so no idea. But the fantastic thing about London is that you can be pretty much any kind of family and not feel ostracized (although idiots do exist everywhere). Eould not have felt comfortable relocating to Birmingham after that experience, and I have a lot of friends who are in mixed-race /same-sex relationships and who are staying in London purely because they feel more comfortable here than somewhere more homogenous[/quote]
I am genuinely sorry that you had that experience, but I note you said the outskirts. I am in an Interracial marriage and have never had one single problem, ever. In fact most of my friends are in IR relationships, would you believe it?! Same with same-sex. It's a non-issue. There's a massive LGBT population and plenty of services for LGBT people should they be needed. This is one of the reasons prejudiced people choose to move to the outskirts - because of race mixers like me and because there's so many LGBT people ;). I am honestly really sorry that happened to you, I hate to see it.

We also love London- and I wouldn't consider leaving! We are, however, looking to move house later in the year, to upsize within the same area. The housing market is crazy here, with houses between £1m and £2m going under offer in 1 day in this area. Only cash or proceedable buyers are being shown around properties in most cases, and buyers are frequently being gazumped. Sales of flats have taken a hit but they will most likely restart once people return to the office.

This doesn’t just happen in London though OP. I live in a small village in the East Midlands that is surrounded by RAF bases. Children are always coming and going at my DC’s school. Their parents get posted abroad or to other parts of the country all the time. My children always adapted. It’s life - people move on. Suck it up.

@Viviennemary

YANBU in as much as it affects you negatively. But there are plus points. House prices will come down hopefully making it a bit more affordable. Commutes less crowded. But if people are now working from home they don't need to bè near work. And if shops cafes restaurants at all closed what's the point in living in a city.,

Yes, it's becoming like the reversal of the Industrial Revolution!

YABU. Not just house prices cheaper outside London- a decent restaurant meal, a babysitter, children’s activities.

Out of 6 of our NCT friends 4 moved out within a couple of years. Those remaining are stuck with shitty secondary schools, or paying for private, no gardens, no space, nowhere safe to cycle, nowhere to park, traffic issues, plus people are more self-absorbed and stressed. (Accept this varies from area to are of course!)

I always thought we might move back to London when the kids left home but the idea is less and less appealing.

I also think that if you’re child free then a city is great and the positives often outway the negatives.

@Bythemillpond

BeagleEagle

I have seen the place mentioned on here about the strange attitudes the locals have to things and a place to avoid living. I think it has got a little better in recent times.
I also know a couple of people who came from that area. Both say the same thing. That they escaped the area as soon as they could. Both describe how they love their family but felt like they didn’t belong in it because of the strange ideas their family have and their need to leave. None of their family has ever seen where they live as it is too far to travel even when they have offered to pick them up and drive them.

Yikes. You couldn't pay me to move somewhere like that.