Aibu to think my 30 year old brother needs to be more independent?

[NatMoz]

My brother lives at home with my parents. He does own a house but rents it out, preferring to live with parents. The rental is arranged by my dad via an estate agents. Anything that goes wrong, my dad sorts out. My brother just gets the rental money.

At home, my parents do everything for him. He has his own car but my dad drops him off at the station to go to work as the free park and ride parking is too rough to leave a car.

They are retired but will only arrange holidays if my brother can come and only ever weekend breaks as he can't get lifts to and from train station/needs feeding.

If I spend the day with them midweek they have to rush back to pick him up.

Additionally, they cook, clean, do washing, pack his suitcase if going on holiday, make his lunch for work etc.

He has never had a girlfriend but is now ready to settle down so is going on dates. Not really a success so far. Would a 30 year old living with parents be a red flag?

There is going to be a time as my parents get older where they are the ones who will be cared for but the way things are going I'll be also burdened with caring for my brother too!?

I can see the long term problems of this current set up but speaking to my parents about it is impossible.

My mum claims he can cook and cleans the bathroom better than my dad but cooking 1 meal a week and a bathroom once every 6 months isn't the same as keeping up with the general housework.

Talking to him about everything ever equates to a non committal, wishy washy response. 'don't you fancy giving dad a break for once regarding giving you a lift? 'nah I'm taking it easy today'.

Don't you want to do this thing? Hmmm maybe next time

Etc

I don't really know what to do, or if it's a case of not interfering and letting everyone just get on with it?

Tell me if I'm being unreasonable. Let me know I have nothing to worry about and should keep out of it.

Unless there is a disability involved, I cannot understand parents who do this. I know it’s generally that they enjoy the relationship and don’t want an empty house, but they are ruining their kids. Seen it enough, generally with men: they end up entitled, selfish and useless. And no sensible women would go anywhere near them.

That doesn’t mean all adult kids living at home are like this - I understand why this happens, and it’s perfectly possible to live a largely independent life (own cooking, washing, alarm setting, car driving, suitcase packing, appointment making...).

@CroutonsAvatar

We have of these in the family, except mid thirties no job and no property. Scares the shit out of me to think what will happen when the inevitable happens.

Yes, my BIL is the same. Why does it scare you? He's not your responsibility. It needs to be very clear to to the rest of them that you are not going to become the replacement once your folks die or get too old to care for themselves. And don't. I don't feel guilty, either. MIL and FIL allowed this and BIL colludes with it. My life is hard enough.

Oh good God. I'd run a mile from a man child like that. As a PP said, your parents aren't actually doing him any favours. It's deeply unimpressive that he has no desire to be independent in any way. But sadly I don't think you can say much, if anything, to any of them - they most probably won't listen, might even accuse you of being jealous or something, and there's a risk it could cause tension. Best to leave them to it and not get involved.

Presumably they've always treated you and your brother very differently? How does that make you feel?

@NeedaLittleNap

I think probably YANBU but with a history of mental health difficulties and still on medication for this (antidepressants?) I suspect the picture is about more complicated.

My son's autistic but had he been born a couple of decades earlier, I doubt he'd have been diagnosed in childhood. We made our peace long ago that it might take him a few more years to get onto his feet as an adult. Possibly your brother's mental health distress may have been more acute than you realised and your parents are scared stiff he will go back to a dark place. Still being on meds 10 years later isn't the norm for "completely fine now". Sure, maybe he is just a manchild and your parents are enabling him but there are lots of other, less clear cut possibilities.

Just judging him and your parents isn't going to achieve anything.

Totally disagree with this. I’ve been on antidepressants since I was 16 and I’m also on anti psychotics - I’ll likely be on them for life, and guess what, I am TOTALLY FINE NOW! Why is that? Because of the medication! I wouldn’t be fine without it.

I moved out at 18 and lived independently since then, in shared places with friends until I started living along 2 years ago. I have a perfectly normal life, job, social life.

Even with MH issues your brother sounds incredibly lazy and immature and your parents are enabling him. I wouldn’t date anyone like that.

One of my family members is like this. He's tried to latch onto my mum once my GPs got older and had been bled dry of cash by him, and it's very hard. When my gf and then GM died, he turned from a slightly frustrating eccentric into an absolute nightmare in his desperation to hold onto his lifestyle, pressuring them to change wills, taking out unauthorised cash, selling heirlooms etc. He's also had no official diagnosis but does seem to have some underlying issues - we suspect a personality disorder but there's no way he'll see anyone.

So basically, Yabu to be focussing on his.datibg prospects but yanbu at all to be thinking of the future, and you should really have an open discussion with your parents to understand what they think the longer term picture is, if they become unwell.

I'm your brother's age. I wouldn't date a man who chose to live at home and have his packed lunches made for him instead of moving into the house he has - I'm not up for being surrogate mummy.

Unless there's something else going on, he needs to grow up and your parents need to stop enabling him.

i would just say im not taking over when youre gone hes anadult who own property and he can look after himself

i cant stand parents like this unfortunately my parents done this to an extent with my sister and she was a spoilt brat although younger took a long time to get out of bad habits

The deal should be he looks after them when the need it but I bet he wont. He will either bail or regress. My friend has one in the family who refuses to grow up. Spends his money on a load of shit, has no friends, cannot do anything. When his parents needed support he did even less.

I would make it very clear that he is not your responsibility and he is expected to step up when they need support

I’m Indian and what you describe is normal amongst Indian and Asian men. It wouldn’t put me off provided he was working, took care of his mh, and moved out if we ever got to the living together stage.

My personal opinion is that he's actually being emotionally abused to an extent.

The parents are deliberately keeping him infantilised. Everyone is gaining. Your parents get to keep him a helpless child who will always need them. He gets his belief in independence being too scary reinforced. He never has to do anything challenging and neither do they.

Until they develop care needs and he's a fucking useless drain. Then it will all fall to you, OP.

So if I were you, I'd make it very clear, very soon, that you will not be picking up the burden of their care and that they will be relying on the adult care services god defend them

@GrumpyHoonMain

I’m Indian and what you describe is normal amongst Indian and Asian men. It wouldn’t put me off provided he was working, took care of his mh, and moved out if we ever got to the living together stage.

Are you happy to then do everything his Mom does for him alongside all the childcare? No judgement, genuine qn

Your parents are facilitating this life. Your dad had this with his parents, your mum does it for your dad and now they're doing it for your brother. I don't see any possibility for you to stop it. It's like they're stuck in this lifestyle now and will never stop it, until your brother meets someone like your mum who will continue to facilitate it. The cycle may never end.

To answer your question about whether a woman would find a 30 year old man who lives with his parents attractive...yes, maybe. A man who lives with his parents may live with them for so many reasons. But a man like your brother who behaves like a child living with his parents...no, not attractive.

@GabsAlot

i would just say im not taking over when youre gone hes anadult who own property and he can look after himself

i cant stand parents like this unfortunately my parents done this to an extent with my sister and she was a spoilt brat although younger took a long time to get out of bad habits

Yes. We know MIL will leave him the house and exactly what will happen. They are hoarders in the extreme and the place is an absolute tip. He will do FA. Eventually, the house next door, which is HA, will pursue legal action on him and my guess is he'll be taken to court and ultimately lose the house. But again, we are not going to get involved at all. He's stubborn, lazy, entitled.

Your parents pack his suitcase???

JFC. That is tragic.

I wouldn’t go near a man baby like that.

My Nan is like this with my mums brother and he’s in his 60’s! He has his own house, 2 roads away from nan’s, but he’s there every single day and most nights he sleeps over. My nan does everything for him, including his laundry and all his food. Literally hands it to him on his lap, he won’t even get up and go into the kitchen to grab it. He doesn’t even know how to make himself a cup of tea. I’m not surprised his wife left him and he’s been single ever since!

Honestly I think my nan likes it that way. He’s the youngest and I think she likes babying him. What she doesn’t realise is her babying is partially responsible for the breakdown of his marriage as my aunt refused to cater to him and he wanted her as a replacement mother, not a wife.

I have two ds’s and I’ll be damned if they turn out the same way

@ButIcantsitonleather

Your parents pack his suitcase???

JFC. That is tragic.

I wouldn’t go near a man baby like that.

MIL does the same. Never goes on holiday without him. One time she went into hospital whilst FIL was still alive and installed him, BIL, at my SIL's to look after (he was in 30s). He was rude, entitled, wanted to sit all day on the sofa and have all brought to him. SIL's partner threw him out after 4 days.

I think your parents are at much at fault as your brother. They make life too easuly for him & should just encourage him out of the nest...like withdrawing the 5* hotel treatment. I do think it is a bit sad (in a pathetic way) when adult children don't have the gumption to leave home. And I think it is very selfish not to allow elderly parents reap the reward of a lifetime of hard work & let them relax & have their home to themselves. I understand when kids are saving for a deposit or between jobs etc...but there should be a goal to gain /regain independence. I would feel disappointed if mine didn't up & leave & were just content to stay forever. Of cpurse, I'd never ever throw them out or leave them without a home to come back to...my door is forever & always open. But kids need to have their own lives & independence & privacy. All the things they usually argue for endlessly in their teens!!

@GerardWay123

Oh shit, I thought it was just my family. There's loads of us with adult children that need kicking out of the nest.

I'm happy to say we were all gone by 30. Last one was about 28 I think. I also had an uncle on each side that lived at home when I was a child, but both of them managed to leave as well.

I do think this guy is a bit awful, but on the other hand he cooks once a week, which is the same as me and I live alone. Living alone doesn't magically make you amazing at housework and DIY!

I've got a long standing male friend who lives with his parents, he has previously left home, went travelling for two years around Australia, has two children with a woman he previously lived with & is now a Grandad. He runs his own business, is a good dad to his 11 year old son, is a brilliant cook & on days he isn't working cooks all the meals at home but just doesn't make the break to get his own place, he is an only child & his parents are in their late seventies, his business is doing something that he loves, not something to make him rich. He fits his work round his son, has him at weekends & half the school holidays, he is happy, leads his own life. With the housing crisis we have in this country & the shortage in social housing I can see this happening more often now & in the future.

There are two possibilities and I don't think you are in a position to know.
May be he is not neuro typical or has mental health. Your parents might not understand/know and just help the best way they can. Must be such a worry for them if that's the case as to what will happen after they are gone.
Or he is a parent certified man child.
The fact that he has never had a gf or bf makes me lean towards the first.
Either way, it might be time for you to gently start a discussion about his future if your parents precede him in death. (Be ready to be cut off or cut out of will).
Mum, dad given DB's total dependence on you even for sandwiches, what provisions should we make in case you are no longer there to offer all this?

It’s not living at home that’s the issue, it’s the inability to engage in normal household running and normal levels of independence. More fool your parents, it’s their choice to enable this dynamic

I think it's a bit pathetic of him and your parents aren't doing him any favours, but it isn't really anything for you to worry about. It's something for the three of them to work out.

It comes across as the concern for his dating life etc isn't genuine, you just think he's got too easy of a life, unlike you. Just don't worry about that. His life is nothing to be jealous of! That you'll have to take care of him also isn't a real concern, you can't be forced to take care of anybody.

Tbh he probably will meet someone quite easily, despite being not exactly a catch. Men that age who want to settle down are usually snapped up straight away, no matter what other flaws/red flags they may have, as there are so many men that age who don't want to commit and so many women who do.

Pretty similar to my brother.

I was very strongly encouraged to leave home after uni. He moved out at 35 into a flat they bought him.

He's never had a job. They pay into savings and a pension for him.

Etc etc

I have skimmed and see a fair few posts saying OP bro must have something wrong with him, undiagnosed SN etc.

I have had this about my brother too.

It's making excuses. Yet more excuses for useless men!

There's nothing wrong with my brother. He's just spoilt.

I hear you OP.

@GrumpyHoonMain

I’m Indian and what you describe is normal amongst Indian and Asian men. It wouldn’t put me off provided he was working, took care of his mh, and moved out if we ever got to the living together stage.

I have a friend of Indian origin who said he wasn't expected to lift a finger at home. No way would I move in with someone like him. He has a live-in girlfriend now and she does all the cooking.

There is going to be a time as my parents get older where they are the ones who will be cared for but the way things are going I'll be also burdened with caring for my brother too!?

Only if you allow yourself to be a complete and utter mug. Personally, I'd be making it known now that you caring for your useless brother is never, ever going to happen.