Concerned about having second jab of AstraZeneca

[LuluJakey1]

I have read all of the stuff about AstraZeneca and blood clots and felt the EU was making a fuss about something the WHO and EMA were saying was not a significant issue.
However, I have become increasingly worried over the last few days when further reports have emerged. They are all linked to AstraZeneca, not to Pfizer.
This is in The Independent which is the first time I have read of the medical profession here recognising it as an issue and warning Drs about it.
www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clotting-doctors-b1826144.html
It raises some very interesting points.

I am worried about having the second jab. I am now feeling the government are trying to sweep it under the table' because they have bought so many doses and could not vaccinate everyone without using AZ.
AIBU to be considering not having the second jab?

What I would like to do is leave it for a while and then have two doses of Pfizer. Does anyone know if that is even medically possible?

@Kishkashta

Only when they boldly state absolute bullshit as it was a known fact.

Do you read the patient leaflets? Many medicines and vaccines have POTENTIALLY fatal side effects.

You said in your post 'The vaccine very likely (certainly if you ask me based on published information) has a potentially fatal side effect'. That is your opinion, not scientific fact. It has not been proven that the AZ vaccine causes blood clots.

[quote identitytalks]@serin my issue is I don't want to die suddenly. I would prefer COVID or cancer over brain aneurysm or heart attack. I'd rather be prepared to die that caught suddenly one day. The thought legit terrifies me. [/quote]
What an offensive post.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat I don't take it, but I don't think so - I know friends who have said yes and have still had their AZ. I think it's for monitoring purposes.

From memory it appears to have replaced the "Are you TTC/Pregnant" question.

They've also changed the allergy questions as well. The yes box is any anaphylaxis to multiple medication allergies rather than any allergies.

Wish I had photographed it so I could share now.

@YouBroughtMeDaffodils someone's preference on how they would prefer to die should never be taken as offensive. I'm sorry that post upset you though.

Thanks @OctupusObsidian. It makes sense if it's for monitoring purposes, I just don't want to be turned away!

[quote OctupusObsidian]@YouBroughtMeDaffodils someone's preference on how they would prefer to die should never be taken as offensive. I'm sorry that post upset you though.[/quote]
Maybe it 'shouldn't' be taken as offensive, but I certainly found it that way. I can only assume the poster is completely ignorant of what death from covid or cancer entails.

Around one in a million people vaccinated with AZ go on to develop a rare type of blood clot, which it does seem that AZ specifically causes.

The contraceptive pill is much more likely to causes another type of blood clot.

I have had my first AZ and will almost definitely get my second unless there is a huge increase in cases of blood clots following second doses of vaccines in the next few weeks.

*Do you read the patient leaflets? Many medicines and vaccines have POTENTIALLY fatal side effects.

You said in your post 'The vaccine very likely (certainly if you ask me based on published information) has a potentially fatal side effect'. That is your opinion, not scientific fact. It has not been proven that the AZ vaccine causes blood clots.*

Yes , I read patient leaflets and more importantly I try to understand what exactly they say. What interest me is the likelihood of serious side effects, which means, what is the chance that they might occur? (As an aside I don't understand why do you read them if (as far as I gathered from your messages) you just ignore these risks :))

The chance of death from these blood clots which (lets assume for the purpose of this discussion) are caused by Astra's Covid vaccine is far higher than the chance of death from GBS caused by flu vaccine today. I am actually unaware of other vaccines carrying risk of death on their leaflets, save vanishingly rare ones from anaphylaxis. This is why some governments choose to stop the vaccination with Astra until this situation is clarified or chance of death is significantly reduced by some potential new treatment/awareness of symptoms. Not because these European governments are hysterical or stupid, or have beef with Astra Zeneca.

As another aside GBS is more likely to occur from flu itself irrespective of age as far as I remember. The risk/benefit ratio for Chadox is very different from that.

@YouBroughtMeDaffodils I agree with you too. Having lost people to me to both it's not nice, and it's also not often given the time people think it is. Covid and cancer can both kill very quickly post diagnosis.

Sorry, I hope I didn't make you feel worse.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Thanks *@OctupusObsidian*. It makes sense if it's for monitoring purposes, I just don't want to be turned away!

You won't be!

Just out now, but will DM with some further experience info...

I have a bad head ever since my first dose of AZ two and a half weeks ago. The usual flu side effects lasted about five days but the bad head has persisted. Now I have reservations about having the second dose. I would love to have a different vaccine for my second dose, but I am pretty sure that will be impossible until the mix and match trials have been completed. I instinctively feel it risky to have a second dose with having gained continual bad head (heavy not throbbing) from the first dose, but I want to be protected as much as possible from Covid. Also I have struggled with shingles, and I think shingles can increase clot problems so have a dilemma whether to have the second AZ dose. Has anyone had a heavy head for more than two weeks after first AZ dose. Has anyone had shingles prior to AZ and noticed strange AZ side effects?

Thanks again @OctupusObsidian

so this thread got me thinking.....And I didn't want to be dismissive of evidence or concers. I wanted to know if there was good data on the naturally occurring incidence of CVT. Turns out the most recent research indicates it has been underestimated recently (for people who like to read journals see here www.ahajournals.org/doi/full/10.1161/STROKEAHA.116.013617)
The study above puts incidence at about 15.7 per million people. Which makes the 31 people reported to have had this from the 2.7 million.
vaccinated entirely inline with the the rate at which this would occur anyways (vaccine or not). Put another way we could get 2 million people to eat a blue smarty and about 30 of them would then have a CVT occurance.
So I hope that helps @LuluJakey1 (and others who have been concerned)

hettie

Do you have a link that works? That one doesn’t. Is the incidence of CVST that you refer to in conjunction with low platelets and bleeding? From what I have read it’s the presence of these three things together that are so very rare and causing concern, not the presence of CVST on its own.

The number of people suffering blood clots is absolutely tiny and the fact they had had the AZ vaccine could just be coincidence. How many people suffer blood clots after having a cup of coffee - probably a similar number?

Have your 2nd jab!

I have a DVT flying back from Australia - I was young, fit and healthy (it was a long time ago) and ended up in hospital on rat poison. My mum has one the following year (after a flight to Singapore) - she was a fair bit older, unfit and unhealthy.

I haven’t looked at the stats to see how commons thrombosis (of various types) are but I don’t think they are all that uncommon.

When I had my DVT I didn’t really pay attention and was dragged to a&e where I was yelled by staff to lay still and not move or I could die (a bit melodramatic maybe but it kept me still).

I could have been merrily going about my business (thinking my leg was just a bit sore and swollen) and potentially dropped dead (if the a&e staff weren’t exaggerating). Do they give you symptoms to look out for?

notlovinglockdownlife
These aren’t “blood clots”. They are a rare type of blood clot in the brain which are occurring simultaneously with low platelets and bleeding. This is such a rare combination of symptoms that the fact it is showing up at all is cause for concern.

hettie
Another question for you. Are you comparing number of case in the population per year? If so have you multiplied up the number of occurrences in vaccinated people by 4 or 5 (to account for the fact these reported occurrences have been within 2 or three months only) to get the rate per year before comparing with the background population rate?

@penni00

I have a bad head ever since my first dose of AZ two and a half weeks ago. The usual flu side effects lasted about five days but the bad head has persisted. Now I have reservations about having the second dose. I would love to have a different vaccine for my second dose, but I am pretty sure that will be impossible until the mix and match trials have been completed. I instinctively feel it risky to have a second dose with having gained continual bad head (heavy not throbbing) from the first dose, but I want to be protected as much as possible from Covid. Also I have struggled with shingles, and I think shingles can increase clot problems so have a dilemma whether to have the second AZ dose. Has anyone had a heavy head for more than two weeks after first AZ dose. Has anyone had shingles prior to AZ and noticed strange AZ side effects?

Hi @penni00, I was told at my vaccine appointment that it was important to tell the GP if I had a headache for more than 4 days after the AZ jab so it's probably worth talking to your GP about this.

www.channel4.com/news/uk-medicines-regulator-considers-issuing-new-advice-over-oxford-astrazeneca-jab

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

OP - if you don;t want the vaccine, don't have it. But do stay home and isolate, and read conspiracy theories ad nauseum.

Bit rude, it's not a conspiracy theory but it's also probably not a reason not to get vaccinated.

Personally if you were going to have a reaction it would be to the first jab same as with any other vaccine. I will be getting my 2nd and I'm a female in my 30s with a genetic history of dvt.

@EveryDayIsADuvetDay

OP - if you don;t want the vaccine, don't have it. But do stay home and isolate, and read conspiracy theories ad nauseum.

ODFOD

I am expressing my concerns relating to expert medical opinions in European countries, not conspiracy theorists.

Today, further concerns have been raised and it now looks as if AstraZeneca may be withdrawn for younger people because a link has been proven (Italy raised further concerns today and EMA to release findings tomorrow.)

It is a very specific concern about a very specific and serious cerebral blood clot which is often fatal- particularly when associated with the platelet issue that has also been observed in over 50 deaths now across Europe, mainly in women my age, all of whom have had the AstraZeneca vaccine. This condition of the clot and platelet issue and the deaths have not been seen with any other vaccine. There should be almost zero recorded in this time period it is so rare.

So bog off with your sneering, patronising comments.

I have promoted this vaccine. I have had the vaccine. I work in a vaccination centre. I am not uninformed. A Dr in the centre said to me today that he is worried about AstraZeneca and thinks it may well be withdrawn, at least for those under 50yrs.

After my ongoing headache experience, is it correct that people like myself with prolonged headache lasting at least two and a half weeks (seems some still have the headache three/four weeks at least) following first jab will have a choice of either declining the second dose of AZ hence losing Covid protection or having to risk a second dose of AZ possibly causing more/worse prolonged headache? I am not happy with that choice, I desperately want to be protected from Covid, but although I know it very rare and extremely unlikely that the brain clot/low platelet would occur - what are these prolonged headaches that people are having - could they also be serious or show up as a serious problem in the future?

Do see your GP re: the headache
The clotting/ low PLT disorder can be very easily excluded with a simple blood test (FBC and a D dimer)

Re: choice of 2nd dose the issue is that the combination of two different vaccines isn't tested so no-one knows if that is effective or safe so I doubt any Dr could responsibly advise you to have a different one even if it was available.

Even having one dose will give a pretty good degree of protection but it's not clear how long it would last