Page 8 | Concerned about having second jab of AstraZeneca

LuluJakey1 · 2021-04-03T12:14:52+00:00

I have read all of the stuff about AstraZeneca and blood clots and felt the EU was making a fuss about something the WHO and EMA were saying was not a significant issue. However, I have become increasingly worried over the last few days when further reports have emerged. They are all linked to AstraZeneca, not to Pfizer. This is in The Independent which is the first time I have read of the medical profession here recognising it as an issue and warning Drs about it. [[https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-astrazeneca-vaccine-blood-clotting-doctors-b1826144.html]] It raises some very interesting points. I am worried about having the second jab. I am now feeling the government are trying to sweep it under the table' because they have bought so many doses and could not vaccinate everyone without using AZ. AIBU to be considering not having the second jab? What I would like to do is leave it for a while and then have two doses of Pfizer. Does anyone know if that is even medically possible?

Lorieandrews · 04/04/2021 09:41

@identitytalks

How can you all be so relaxed with the risks.

@Jangle33 why don't I have the right to ask for pzifer? If I'm willing to wait long enough then I'm sure it won't be a problem.

@Lorieandrews glad you survived! What did it feel like may I ask?

I was drinking a cup of tea. Suddenly my right side dropped. Like a stroke. Called an ambulance and because of my history they treated it as a stroke within the hour. This was what did it.

Then I don’t remember the next four weeks. I had all my clots within 30 days. So I ended up in ICU. But I was in hospital nearly a year.

But other than the dropping of my face. Weakness etc. I don’t remember it. Although I did get a piercing headache. But not for long. That was severe.

But that’s it really.

Anonawoman · 04/04/2021 09:48

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EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 04/04/2021 09:54

OP - if you don;t want the vaccine, don't have it.
But do stay home and isolate, and read conspiracy theories ad nauseum.

hettie · 04/04/2021 09:57

@FrancesSaid that daily mail article is the worst kind of science journalism...trying to make something unequivocal and absolute when in reality it is not. Basically the teams that flagged the concerns think they have an explanatory mechanism for how the vaccine could cause blood clots. Their explanation scans well, so it passed a non sceintific expert - does this make sense reading. But currently it is just an idea/opinion. Which is fine because that's where good science starts....I think I've observed this thing, I've got an idea that this may be the reason why this thing is happening. The next bit is the acid test, you use robust scientific methodology to test your theory. I think the last year of journals publishing without peer review (preprints) and open access to the public and massive interest from the media have made some scientists a little giddy headed. We needed to operate at speed and get ideas out and shared, but it's become a bit of a free for all. Unfortunately most people (and I include most so called science journalists) are not sufficiently trained or experienced enough to interpret the level of information we are now being bombarded with. Couple this with understable high levels of anxiety and things can quickly blow up....

Julieandthejets · 04/04/2021 10:49

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FrancesSaid · 04/04/2021 10:58

hettie

@FrancesSaid that daily mail article is the worst kind of science journalism...trying to make something unequivocal and absolute when in reality it is not.

I did apologise for posting a DailyFail link but I couldn’t find the article I had read which was in some science magazine. I wasn’t trying to say this was “the” mechanism, just that there “is” a theory of how it is linked to the AZ vaccine and not just purely coincidental (as per the slipping in bar of soap comment).

OctupusObsidian · 04/04/2021 11:04

They are now asking whether you are taking hormonal contraceptive when you go for your vaccine - so I believe they think the blood clots are linked to that - there's no increase above base line for clots caused by the AZ vaccine.

Also the form states it's fine to have one vaccine than the other now as well. So in our area just because you were given AZ, it doesn't mean you will get AZ for the second dose.

OctupusObsidian · 04/04/2021 11:05

The UK has actually given millions of AZ doses to those who are already at higher risk of developing blood clots - obese people, people with underlying neurological conditions, people who are bed bound

Julieandthejets · 04/04/2021 11:05

@Julieandthejets

What people are not taking in to account is that 1- the AZ vaccine is linked to a very rare type of blood clot. At several times over the rate that these blood clots would be expected to occur in a population. 2- the demographic factors. It seems to be occurring in young women (I believe at a rate of around 30 times that of men) So I’m overjoyed that my mum in her 60s has the vaccine because her risk of getting seriously ill from covid is higher than the risk of having an adverse effect from the vaccine, but considering I’m early 30s and relatively healthy the benefit to risk ratio is not nearly so clean cut. In fact more women in the 30-39 age bracket in Germany have suffered these rare blood clots than have died of covid. I agree with you OP it’s certainly not an easy choice. I’d much rather have the Pfizer or Moderna if it was offered.

I’ve just looked at the death statistics in Germany and I’m mistaken. 49 women between 30-39 have died of covid. Apologies.

jadedagain · 04/04/2021 11:20

Agree with Julieandthejets and twoofusburningmatches. I am pro vaccination and was very keen to get the astra zeneca. However, I want to know more. This is NOT the same as the blood clot risk of the pill or from covid itself but a very specific one which I have read Prof Paul Hunter says is likely to be causal as the clusters have been found in Germany and the UK. He goes on to say that the jab is still recommended as the risk is low and the risks of the virus are higher but why give it to women in middle age when there are other jabs until we know more....

Anonawoman · 04/04/2021 11:46

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AstraZenecaisprettyforagirl · 04/04/2021 12:26

@OctupusObsidian

They are now asking whether you are taking hormonal contraceptive when you go for your vaccine - so I believe they think the blood clots are linked to that - there's no increase above base line for clots caused by the AZ vaccine.

Also the form states it's fine to have one vaccine than the other now as well. So in our area just because you were given AZ, it doesn't mean you will get AZ for the second dose.

I find it staggeringly unlikely that this is happening at your vaccination centre. The NHS is currently engaged in a 13-month trial to see if mixing different vaccines is safe. We are nowhere near having enough information to know if this is safe.

OctupusObsidian · 04/04/2021 12:31

@AstraZenecaisprettyforagirl Well as someone who was in the vaccination centre and read the forms with their own very eyes, that was what was written.

It's also been in the news that it's OK :-)

My vaccine centre, was a research vaccination centre by the way - I was part of two studies (still am part of one), through PHE.

AstraZenecaisprettyforagirl · 04/04/2021 12:35

[quote OctupusObsidian]@AstraZenecaisprettyforagirl Well as someone who was in the vaccination centre and read the forms with their own very eyes, that was what was written.

It's also been in the news that it's OK :-)

My vaccine centre, was a research vaccination centre by the way - I was part of two studies (still am part of one), through PHE.[/quote]
Gosh. I'm genuinely surprised about this (and some of my doctor friends are unaware this is happening. I was chatting about this very thing with one last week!)

OctupusObsidian · 04/04/2021 12:52

Yeah, I was pretty surprised when I read the forms too, but it does make sense that it's a viable option.

Ilovechinese · 04/04/2021 13:03

Yanbu dont get it! They are in trials still

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 04/04/2021 13:24

@OctupusObsidian what happens if you are taking a hormonal contraceptive, are you turned away? I'd be well and truly pissed off if that was the case.

Kishkashta · 04/04/2021 13:31

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

The vaccine very likely (certainly if you ask me based on published information) has a potentially fatal side effect

So do a lot of other vaccines and medicines but people still take those without question.

Really? Here is an independent research/scientific thinking/basic numeracy development project: find an example of such vaccine and also how often this is known to happen. Then compare to the numbers that are suspected with regards to AstraZeneca vaccine new side effect.

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 04/04/2021 13:35

Flu vaccines
GBS
1 in a million risk

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 04/04/2021 13:38

AZ vaccine
VIPIT
Non proven link
1 in 2.5 million fatalities in U.K. dataset

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 04/04/2021 13:41

Really? Here is an independent research/scientific thinking/basic numeracy development project: find an example of such vaccine and also how often this is known to happen. Then compare to the numbers that are suspected with regards to AstraZeneca vaccine new side effect.

Does talking to people as if they are children make you feel better?

Kishkashta · 04/04/2021 13:41

GBS is usually not fatal.
What is the risk of fatal GBS as a result of flu vaccine?

Kishkashta · 04/04/2021 13:44

Only when they boldly state absolute bullshit as it was a known fact.

OverTheRubicon · 04/04/2021 13:46

@jadedagain

Agree with Julieandthejets and twoofusburningmatches. I am pro vaccination and was very keen to get the astra zeneca. However, I want to know more. This is NOT the same as the blood clot risk of the pill or from covid itself but a very specific one which I have read Prof Paul Hunter says is likely to be causal as the clusters have been found in Germany and the UK. He goes on to say that the jab is still recommended as the risk is low and the risks of the virus are higher but why give it to women in middle age when there are other jabs until we know more....

They're saying that the blood clot risk is lower than for someone flying on a plane, or taking the pill. Not exactly the same clotting issue, but bizarre that people who were unconcerned about flying to Spain for a holiday are concerned about getting a vaccine that is much lower risk. And getting covid causes far higher risk of clots than any of the above, why would you not want to minimise your risk of that?

CovoidOfAllHumanity · 04/04/2021 13:50

Mortality rate of GBS 3-13%
Rate of serious morbidity much higher 30% residual weakness after 3yrs
Would you not think GBS a very scary thing? I would

Mortality rate of VIPIT
16/61 adding up U.K. and German reports ie 26%

However this is not really a fair comparison because:
They are now working out how to recognise and treat VIPIT so mortality rate will reduce
Cases resulting in death and serious outcomes are going to be the ones recognised which will push up mortality rates. We don't know if it's possible to have it more mildly.